Poor Instructors

sassiebaz · Dec 5, 2007

I attended an orientation at Apollo...I was NOT impressed! They said only 12 of the 30 were graduating last month. I don't know how you manage all those classes as once. I don't think I will be able to pull it off. Im not sure which route to take now. I guess I'll just keep plugging away one class at a time....

tinapples · Dec 5, 2007

I just applied to the Good Shepherd care facility in Peoria. They have a CNA program and then after you have worked there for a year, you they will pay for your RN. Does anyone have any experience with their program and working environment that they can share?

MassagetoRN · Dec 6, 2007

Ok, I have a 2 fold response:

As for Good Shepard in Peoria, I used to be their massage therapist that came in monthly to work on the staff. Having been a CNA, I have to say that is the nicest, cleanest, well run facility I have ever seen. They truly appreciate their staff, and love their residents too! The CNA instructor, a Canadian woman, is very smart, kind, and just plain great! The resident valet coordinator is like a mother hen who loves and protects her chicks. Over all, that is a great place to start your career!!!

Secondly, I am a massage therapy instructor at one of these "accelerated schools" and I am also taking the last of my pre-req's in the MCCD for nursing. While I don't teach nursing, I understand how these schools operate. First of all, they are run by a corporation, not like the community colleges. You have to understand, these schools are super, super accelerated (like teaching all the bones and muscles in 5 weeks!)! I don't even like my massage therapy students to have a job and try to get through school. I can't imagine tough course after tough course with nursing. You also can't look at it from a money standpoint of "Well I am paying 5 times the price, so I should get 5 times the education." You are paying for an accelerated education without the wait. As far as the graduation rate, these schools tend to attract those students who really couldn't cut it in college college. I could tell you story after story of student dramas that we teachers have to work through before getting to the learning, that would never be the teacher's problem at university level (like boyfriend/family/transportation issues). And I wonder how many students the MCCD nursing programs lose from start to finish?

I am not saying that these tech schools are perfect, but in any program, you get good and not so good teachers. You sometimes have to push through and demand the education and help that you need. First, approach the teacher one on one at a human level, without being on the attack. If you still aren't satisfied, then go see either the director of the program or the dean. It may be that your learning style and their teaching style differ and you need to brainstorm on how to bridge the gap. Remember that us teachers are human too!

tinapples · Dec 6, 2007

Thanks for the info.

My friend was concerned that after I finished the CNA program, they might work their employees really hard and take advantage of the contract. She has had experience with this kind of operation before (she is not very familiar with Good Shepherd though...) I just want to make sure before I sign a contract with them.

hope3456, ASN, RN · Dec 6, 2007

I don't live in AZ but I agree - those 'for profit' private nursing schools that are popping up everywhere are a bit on the scary side.

For example, the Denver School of Nursing - it costs like 50,000+ to go there and the school isn't even accredited.....and they have a low pass rate on the NCLEX. They have only been in business a couple years. Not worth it IMHO.

caliotter3 · Dec 6, 2007

A community college program is almost always the better way to go, however, some people just can not get in or can't get in in the time frame that is best for them. You have to beware with the private schools. Many, if not most, of them, have poor reputations. But if you graduate and get to take and pass the boards, you have at least reached one goal. You will then have to learn good job skills on the job. Most community college graduates, to a certain degree, have to do some adjusting here also. You are paying for convenience, not necessarily quality.

RNMeg · Dec 20, 2007

State college nursing schools (NAU, U of A, ASU) don't have waiting lists, and the tuition is much more reasonable than private schools like GCU. It's a slower pace, so stuff can sink in..rather than the go, go, go, learn, learn, learn pace of the accelerated programs. The only problem is admission is highly competitive..but they're fully accredited, and instructors generally excellent and happy to help. Just my 2 cents..I noticed state colleges weren't addressed in this thread..there was only mention of corporate nursing schools, CCs and private schools. :)

GilbertDaddy · Dec 20, 2007

I don't live in AZ but I agree - those 'for profit' private nursing schools that are popping up everywhere are a bit on the scary side.
For example, the Denver School of Nursing - it costs like 50,000+ to go there and the school isn't even accredited.....and they have a low pass rate on the NCLEX. They have only been in business a couple years. Not worth it IMHO.

Because of the initial time investment and the entrance salary being similar in some aspects, I really pursued massage therapy at both Apollo and ASMT and having gone through real estate school the same way (Az School of RE and Business - basically an accelerated way to get to the test w/o the years of standard college), I was luckily familiar with the constructs of how a business like that works.

The advertisements are what specifically disturbed me. I don't mind all the talk of being "in demand" - that's another matter. What concerned me at the massage schools was all the talk of placement.

When you read more into it, you hear all the horror stories of how what was supposed to be $50,000 a year your first year at "great companies" like Massage Envy, turn out to pay less than waiting tables due to the pay structure and the politics of things.

When looking at a private business-based school, I'd heavily recommend doing research and looking for forums and sites dedicated to students who have gone through and are chatting about their experiences.

I ended up holding off due to the financial issues (almost $12,000 for a one year course for MT), and in the end I'm happy. I could have gotten my license, studied a bit more, and opened up a studio in my home, but I knew that would be the only way to make enough money to support myself and my kids on.

With nursing it's a TAD different, but as i don't believe Apollo offers an RN program (just CNA and other assistant programs), or even credits that transfer to "real" colleges should you decide to go further later on, I imagine you're also likely being fed some very unhealthy information regarding employment opportunities.

I've heard great things about the some of the instructors, especially if you're willing to put in the work and realize that probably half your class is there so they can make $XX,XXX a year without ever going to college or having to pass an English 101 course. However, the general politics of the school itself merit some research. And as it was pointed out above, realize that there may be some students less motivated once the real work hits - you can't let them drag you down by any means during an accelerated program. Not only is time money, it's also fleeting.

If you decide to go ahead, please post about your experience. I for one would be very interested. If their placement is whored about as much as Massage Envy was when I went in to talk to the enrollment offices about Massage Therapy school, I'd beware. It felt like when you look at want ads and car dealerships say the average pay is $60,000 a year for the first year salesman. Buyer beware :uhoh3:

I recall actually telling the enrollment advisor, "Please - Stop. I've done the research.. I know how the Massage Envy thing works and I'm personally not interested. Can we get to the meat of the schedule, classes, and overall financial costs?".

In other words, they tend to try and pull the wool over your eyes with grassy fields before they hit you with the "this is what it will cost you in total" number.

MassagetoRN · Dec 21, 2007

I admit that admissions can be a bit of "used car salesmen" however you can make good money in massage without working for the sweat shop that is Massage Envy. I have, and my students do as well. Plus in the city of Phx, you can't do massage out of your home, its illegal.

Yes, Apollo College does offer a ADN program, with credits transferable to University of Phx, and they also just got ACICS accredited. So, credits will be even more transferable. Plus many universities off RN-BSN programs that only care if you have your RN.

Any career in the healthcare field is in high demand, I hope you find your fit.

GilbertDaddy · Dec 21, 2007

I admit that admissions can be a bit of "used car salesmen" however you can make good money in massage without working for the sweat shop that is Massage Envy. I have, and my students do as well. Plus in the city of Phx, you can't do massage out of your home, its illegal.
Yes, Apollo College does offer a ADN program, with credits transferable to University of Phx, and they also just got ACICS accredited. So, credits will be even more transferable. Plus many universities off RN-BSN programs that only care if you have your RN.
Any career in the healthcare field is in high demand, I hope you find your fit.

Wow really? I was positive it was just a matter of general zoning and only an issue with the HOA if you converted a bedroom or private living space to a massage studio?

I'd be curious about that ADN program. With ACICS accred., can credits move to Maricopa CC's, or just select institutions like UoP? That's a step in the right direction if nothing else. I'd be curious about how getting an ADN would affect employment and acceptance into programs (discrimination based on where you went to school).

You can make good money out of massage, I've heard a few stories on other forums (http://www.massageresource.com/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi - is a decent one) where folks are routinely making 50k+ without doing it all by themselves. Very few clinics, PT offices, etc. seem to offer splits and cuts that mirror the pay promised.

However salary.com still puts massage therapy at a 50k/yr on average job, so it really depends. I guess :shrug:

Either way though, I'd do some THOROUGH research into how employable and how attractive you remain going through a program like this. When it comes down to applying for a small opening like CRNA school or furthering your career otherwise, you may find that the speed and location of your education can limit you when it really counts.

So I'd suggest a Comm. College for sure.

Not to say that I wouldn't jump to pay for an accelerated program in a HEARTBEAT, if it was exactly the same. But I get the sneaking suspicion it isn't. Even if it's just a matter of perception =/