Please quit wasting my time: Interview Advice from Hiring Manager

[Teacher Sue]

I have spent the last two days interviewing candidates for an open RN position on my floor. Last week I went through the 14 resumes HR sent over to pick out the ones I wanted to interview. Eliminated eight of these for various reasons ( poor grammar and spelling, history of job hopping, inappropriate email address), and scheduled six interviews. I did the last interview this afternoon, and still have not found a suitable candidate. I know there are plenty of resources online that give Job Search tips, so please, put a little effort into writing an appropriate resume, and learning how to interview. I don't care if you are old, young, fat, thin, new GN or crusty old bat, gorgeous or if you wear a paper bag over your head. Please present yourself in a professional manner when interviewing. You don't need to wear a business suit, but don't come in jeans or shorts. Don't come with overdone hair and make up and tons of bling. Learn to communicate in a professional manner as well. You are a college graduate, you should at least have an understanding of basic grammar and know how to express yourself. Express a sincere desire to work on my unit. Don't tell me that you really don't want to work on a telemetry unit, that you just want to get into the hospital so that you can transfer into ICU as soon as there is an opening. Don't be cocky or dismissive of CNAs and other ancillary personnel when I introduce you to the staff for the peer interview.

I have read numerous posts from nurses who cannot find jobs in the present economy, and I feel for them. But it can be just as frustrating for a manager looking for staff who are professional, caring, and committed to their profession. I feel like the last two days have been a complete waste of my time. Please, if you are lucky enough to get an interview, make sure you are presenting yourself as a professional. If you cannot make the effort to do so, don't waste your time or mine by even scheduling the interview.

[Still Standing]

Very good advice, thanks!

[citylights89, BSN, RN]

Perhaps you should re-read the original post -- the paragraph about how she weeded out resumes of job-hoppers, people with poor grammar, spelling, etc. If your resume is one that is weeded out immediately for poor quality, you won't get an interview. And what hiring manager has time to deal with walk-ins? They have other things to do than interview someone who cannot be bothered to make an appointment.

That still doesn't apply to what I said. Sometimes your resume just doesn't get seen, period. This is through no fault of the applicant, but by the large number of applicants. Some managers either don't have the time or refuse to go through all the applicants, choosing either only the oldest or newest ones too review. What if the best person was the opposite of the category they were looking at? In fact, one of my preceptors admitted to this practice. Some managers do like walk-ins or people who take the initiative to call. Some don't. It is a very discouraging job market and you can't please everyone. In other words, what I'm saying is that the applicant won't even have the chance to decide "Suit or PJs?" for their interview because chances are, they probably aren't going to get one. Might as well have a ghost read your resume. What a crapshoot.

[Cold Stethoscope]

I'm sorry you were bullied. But Teacher Sue had nothing to do with that. Don't blame every nurse out there because you ran into a few mean ones. When we do that, it only makes us one of the new bullies in town.

Then which managers are hiring the bullies, given that they're so common on nursing units, if this site is to be believed? Do they all have pristine resumes, and exhibit great acting ability at interviews?

Are nursing managers skilled at eliminating candidates with sociopathic tendencies? Are some nursing managers sociopaths who look for those in their own mold?

Finally, given the education and experience nursing managers typically have, what gives them expertise in hiring?

[Guest343211]

Then which managers are hiring the bullies, given that they're so common on nursing units, if this site is to be believed? Do they all have pristine resumes, and exhibit great acting ability at interviews?

Are nursing managers skilled at eliminating candidates with sociopathic tendencies? Are some nursing managers sociopaths who look for those in their own mold?

Finally, given the education and experience nursing managers typically have, what gives them expertise in hiring?

I hear what you are saying. The bullying thing is WAY more pervasive than people want to admit. Perhaps nurses and NMs just don't think there is a real solution to the problem. I don't know.

I have a ton of research on this topic. Seriously, it's not just a few places where this exists. It's part of a culture that has been deemed as somehow OK--of course never on paper or in meetings. Getting beyond the lip-service on it, and getting real about the problem, this is really what leaders need to do. Of course if they don't believe they will truly have the support from their administration beyond lip service, they may continue to avoid it.

People have gotten wise about bullying. They know darn well overt bullying will not be tolerated in most cases. It's the covert stuff that is hard to dig through--that's the problem--and it is more pervasive than people will admit. Many just say, "Well a candidate doesn't fit into the culture." I worry about the acceptance of the covert bullying, sabbotage, and all the other nonsense that goes on, and it being tolerated b/c it's just a matter of others not "fitting into the culture."

I am more willing to respect someone saying, "I am not going to address the problem" rather than denying that one exists, if indeed it may. (The problem most definitely exists, and it is pervasive. My research supported that.) But who in the world is going to be forthright and say that? LOL. They would consider it job or career suicide. It takes some true grit to admit this problem and deal with it head on where it lives. Again, people have to have support from above though, or they will feel impotent to deal with it. Meanwhile, the cycling through of candidates--wash, rinse, repeat--that will just continue. What would Einstein call that? Insanity?

[wooh, BSN, RN]

That still doesn't apply to what I said. Sometimes your resume just doesn't get seen, period. This is through no fault of the applicant, ...

It's also not the fault of Teacher Sue that the job market sucks right now. If you don't like the criteria she uses, then when you eventually become a manager, you can use your own criteria. If she's happy with how her unit is running, then obviously she's doing something right.

[HopingICU]

Your candidates sound ridiculous...WOW. My comment is don't automatically count someone just b/c they have switched jobs a few times. There may very well be legitimate reasons.

I completely agree! That would be a good question to ask during the interview.

[wish_me_luck, BSN, RN]

Ruby, I appreciate your response. I would have liked to have done that. Like I said, when I got the job, I had no intentions of leaving. But my problem was I had someone, who if any little thing that happened, she would go to the manager about it. I actually got called into the manager's office one day because of complaints. I was not perfect by any means, but when you have someone who is always going to management just to rack up complaints on someone, I wouldn't have even had the chance to stay there 14 yrs because I would have been fired. That's my point. For me, it wouldn't stop until I quit or got fired. My manager never took both of us aside and asked us what was going on. It was whatever the nurses said went. Turn over was high on the floor in general and people hated floating to our floor.

I tried to be friends with her. Once I was working on a different hall than her and her tech went to lunch and didn't tell her and a pt needed to be cleaned up and packed up. I cleaned them up and packed them up because I not only felt for the pt but I was trying to be nice and put forth a team effort. I went back to the hospital for clinical, said bully made it to charge nurse. How these people get promoted, I'll never know. Maybe it's due to lack of control in unit and they feel like they need some control. I have no idea though.

I wish managers would consider that when looking at job applications and seeing something such as tech for x months. Sometimes, it is beyond that person's control. I am not blaming Teacher Sue for anything but don't assume just because they left one health care job, they will do it again. Give me a decent unit, I'll stay. Not everyone is a job hopper. My other jobs I have had for years. They aren't full time jobs, but I stayed with them because I worked with and for decent people. I also volunteer. And some of the other posts are true when they say that sometimes we never even get called for an interview, so we don't get to choose between pjs or suits or have those awkward moments trying to think of answer to an interview question.

I have another question for the managers and exp. nurses. If someone gets an interview, and they are asked why they left their last job, is it okay to be honest or do I need to "sugar coat" the answer and use the school reason? I know managers and facilities think 'oh well, if they "bad mouth" or say something negative about their last unit, they will do it to us'; but what happens if it's the truth?

I told my mom that if I get an interview for a nurse job, then one of my questions to the manager would be how they would deal with bullying on their unit and my mom said not to ask that because I wouldn't get the truth. No one would come out and admit it happens on their unit. It genuinely scares me to think I would be put in that situation again. I want to be a nurse but I want to be able to work without being bullied.

[Guest343211]

It's also not the fault of Teacher Sue that the job market sucks right now. If you don't like the criteria she uses, then when you eventually become a manager, you can use your own criteria. If she's happy with how her unit is running, then obviously she's doing something right.

Who has said anything about it being Teacher Sue's "fault?"

The discussion and the tangential points have to do with understanding and growth for everyone. Let's not separate people out like that. That's part of the problem I am referring to.

None of us has a clue what Teacher Sue's unit is like and how it functions. That's not the point of this discussion.

T.Sue's points are pretty much in line with most here. In general I think some changes in approaches are in order, both in terms of hiring practices as well as in dealing with orientation/precepting practices. Mostly they have to do with striving to use as many objective measures as possible, and increasing awareness and education regarding social dynamics in settings.

So, there are some related considerations that were brought into the discussion. They don't appear to apply to T. Sue and her situation.

Personally, I do believe the job market will get better--even if more and more things are moving outside the hospital setting. I also believe that some of the practices implemented during this recession will jump up to bite many hospitals.

I'm still shaking my head over someone wearing pjs to an interview. What the???

I am wondering. . .does the manager or HR person say anything to the pj people?

[Guest343211]

Ruby, I appreciate your response. I would have liked to have done that. Like I said, when I got the job, I had no intentions of leaving. But my problem was I had someone, who if any little thing that happened, she would go to the manager about it. I actually got called into the manager's office one day because of complaints. I was not perfect by any means, but when you have someone who is always going to management just to rack up complaints on someone, I wouldn't have even had the chance to stay there 14 yrs because I would have been fired. That's my point. For me, it wouldn't stop until I quit or got fired. My manager never took both of us aside and asked us what was going on. It was whatever the nurses said went. Turn over was high on the floor in general and people hated floating to our floor.

^ THIS. This is exactly the kind of thing I am talking about, and it is often truly about bullying and horizontal, or sometimes even vertical, violence. I have mentioned this before. The use of "informant, influential others." I could become quite wealthy if I had a C-note for every time I have seen this kind of thing. If there is a question about performance or safety or whatever, there should be an objective systematic approach to dealing with it. This is a huge part of the toxicity and sickness in nursing! We need to get real and get a grip on this sort of thing.

I tried to be friends with her. Once I was working on a different hall than her and her tech went to lunch and didn't tell her and a pt needed to be cleaned up and packed up. I cleaned them up and packed them up because I not only felt for the pt but I was trying to be nice and put forth a team effort. I went back to the hospital for clinical, said bully made it to charge nurse. How these people get promoted, I'll never know. Maybe it's due to lack of control in unit and they feel like they need some control. I have no idea though.

I wish managers would consider that when looking at job applications and seeing something such as tech for x months. Sometimes, it is beyond that person's control. I am not blaming Teacher Sue for anything but don't assume just because they left one health care job, they will do it again. Give me a decent unit, I'll stay. Not everyone is a job hopper. My other jobs I have had for years. They aren't full time jobs, but I stayed with them because I worked with and for decent people. I also volunteer. And some of the other posts are true when they say that sometimes we never even get called for an interview, so we don't get to choose between pjs or suits or have those awkward moments trying to think of answer to an interview question.

I have another question for the managers and exp. nurses. If someone gets an interview, and they are asked why they left their last job, is it okay to be honest or do I need to "sugar coat" the answer and use the school reason? I know managers and facilities think 'oh well, if they "bad mouth" or say something negative about their last unit, they will do it to us'; but what happens if it's the truth?

I told my mom that if I get an interview for a nurse job, then one of my questions to the manager would be how they would deal with bullying on their unit and my mom said not to ask that because I wouldn't get the truth. No one would come out and admit it happens on their unit. It genuinely scares me to think I would be put in that situation again. I want to be a nurse but I want to be able to work without being bullied.

How they get promoted? LOL. Um By helping the mger "do her/his job, but not in a good way." The other thing is, often, NM's want to move up the ladder. That's fine, but realize that they don't want too many waves along the way. They figure out who the dominant players are, and then they allow them control and don't interfer with their antics too much. I mean, after all, they are "good nurses and are VERY helpful." *sigh*

Mom may right; however, I would find out early on what written policies are in place regarding all sorts of abuse, harassment, lateral and horizontal violence. The HR person "should" be able to help with this. You have to really clue into the dynamics of the unit as soon as possible. If there is a pattern, and you don't see mgt stepping up, start looking elsewhere ASAP or find a unionized hospial, where you can't be dismissed, necessarily, for bogus reasons. Say little and observe, observe, observe. Don't allow any forms of abuse, overt or covert, to accumulate too long. I say this, b/c everyone needs time to try to fairly figure out if, well, it could be them--or their sensitivity, or whatever. But if you have been oppressed by this kind of thing before and you see a pattern developing, without principled leadership standing against it, GET OUT before you have to put it on your resume. You have your own goals and life. Don't get sucked into the toxicity. If there is a pattern, it has probably been going on for quite some time.

Unfortunately, this has become a field where it's very much, "every person for himself or herself." Yes, it's part of the problem. But when you are new, there is usually little you can do to change the dynamics, so you have to jump ship, if necessary for your own health and wellbeing and career advancement. If it's bad, do not stay too long at the fair if you can get work elsewhere. Always have a per diem or some other kind of PT backup position. There's no way to stress this enough.

I am very disheartened by your story, and it's so sad that it is far from the only one like it.

[BrandonLPN, LPN]

I would imagine interviewers get sick of hearing all the pat answers and sugar coated explanations. I work at a state run home for disabled veterans. When asked in the interview why I want to work here, I replied because they pay good and I want government benefits. She seemed to like the honesty. I bet interviewers quickly get tired of schmaltz like "it's in my heart to help others" or "my biggest weakness is I care too much".

[wish_me_luck, BSN, RN]

Thanks, sam. Like I said before, when I did practicum, once I was done doing my nurse stuff and had some free moments, I made it a point to ask the techs if they needed help. I think they appreciated it. But it's sad, it must not only be me because one girl I was helping was leery of my help. She told me once she took a nurse up on helping her with something and the nurse turned around and told the manager that the girl couldn't handle the job. I told her that I am not like that. I explained to her what happened to me and I didn't want other people to go through that. Good team work makes for better patient care.

I would love to just find a nurse job and be paired up with another new grad who is just as scared as I am. Have someone to chum with, lean on, and help do those things like turning people and getting pts to the bathroom that require two people (yes, I plan on still cleaning pts if my tech is too busy and my pt needs it; I don't want to be a nurse that having an RN license means you never have to clean another tail side again) and be able to ask someone if they know the answer to something I don't know and vice versa instead of asking a nurse that will rip me a new one just for asking a question. Like have a peer partner or something. There's been things I am good at that other new grads aren't and there's things I don't know and other new grads do. But I want someone who is in the same boat as me hence why I would want like a "peer partner" versus a mentor. We could learn together.

[wish_me_luck, BSN, RN]

haha, Brandon, your reply just gave me a good laugh. Thanks! (my NCLEX is coming up soon and I am stressed; AN is good stress relief).