Please quit wasting my time: Interview Advice from Hiring Manager

[Teacher Sue]

I have spent the last two days interviewing candidates for an open RN position on my floor. Last week I went through the 14 resumes HR sent over to pick out the ones I wanted to interview. Eliminated eight of these for various reasons ( poor grammar and spelling, history of job hopping, inappropriate email address), and scheduled six interviews. I did the last interview this afternoon, and still have not found a suitable candidate. I know there are plenty of resources online that give Job Search tips, so please, put a little effort into writing an appropriate resume, and learning how to interview. I don't care if you are old, young, fat, thin, new GN or crusty old bat, gorgeous or if you wear a paper bag over your head. Please present yourself in a professional manner when interviewing. You don't need to wear a business suit, but don't come in jeans or shorts. Don't come with overdone hair and make up and tons of bling. Learn to communicate in a professional manner as well. You are a college graduate, you should at least have an understanding of basic grammar and know how to express yourself. Express a sincere desire to work on my unit. Don't tell me that you really don't want to work on a telemetry unit, that you just want to get into the hospital so that you can transfer into ICU as soon as there is an opening. Don't be cocky or dismissive of CNAs and other ancillary personnel when I introduce you to the staff for the peer interview.

I have read numerous posts from nurses who cannot find jobs in the present economy, and I feel for them. But it can be just as frustrating for a manager looking for staff who are professional, caring, and committed to their profession. I feel like the last two days have been a complete waste of my time. Please, if you are lucky enough to get an interview, make sure you are presenting yourself as a professional. If you cannot make the effort to do so, don't waste your time or mine by even scheduling the interview.

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

Not quite the same with nursing, and indeed it really shouldn't be. Again, likeability OK within reason, but it shouldn't get top billing. For nursing, especially in critical or acute care, that's foolhearty thinking IMHO. Besides personalities are as diverse as the colors of the rainbow and more, and within the spectrum of an individual's personality are gradations.

Use balanced, more objective measures, and don't get caught up too much in likeability. This can vary like the wind with people. Each person should look at herself or himself on any given day. Again character matters more, and you won't really find out enough about either likeability or character until you are working with the person for at least a good six months.

Wow. Nursing is still in such trouble when it puts likeability and personality as top billing for a professional clinical positon. I say all this, and I am a personable person and like to have fun and smile at work, unless it's completely inappropriate to do so. Some people, however, are resevered. Some people, it really takes a while to know that they can smile and be pleasant, but their family's culture taught them something different.

All I am saying is don't be too quick to give this likeability/personality thing top billing. Here's a good rule: Strive to evaluate others in the same manner in which you (the NM, ANM, colleague-RN, HR person, whomever) would like to be evaluated.

Some folks are more likable than others after you've worked with them for six months. But anyone who cannot manage to be at least somewhat likable for an hour long interview should not be hired. The interviewee who is surly, arrogant, entitled, self-centered or otherwise unpleasant during the interview is probably going to be MUCH worse to work with.

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

wooh, I think you have been a nurse a while, what would you have done if you were new and a nurse made the comment that was made to me?

Personally, I figured it didn't matter if I worked on my weaknesses or provided excellent patient care; according to what the nurse told me, this apparently wasn't going to stop until I was fired. Then, that would have been worse than quitting.

I cannot answer for Wooh, but I've been in that position. And I made up my mind that I wasn't going to let anyone for whom I had so little respect push me out of a job. I stayed 14 years at that job. The other person was still there, and we got to be friendly.

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

All these points are null and void if you don't even get an interview or the so called hiring manager refuses to speak to walk ins or answer their phone. Good luck at trying to be seen. Maybe I'll wear a chicken suit and squak my way in there! Don't judge me. >.>

Perhaps you should re-read the original post -- the paragraph about how she weeded out resumes of job-hoppers, people with poor grammar, spelling, etc. If your resume is one that is weeded out immediately for poor quality, you won't get an interview. And what hiring manager has time to deal with walk-ins? They have other things to do than interview someone who cannot be bothered to make an appointment.

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

Dear Teacher Sue,

would you consider interviewing a nurse with 1 year of experience in a Psych Center, who is v.decent and v.professional?

or the psych center experience leaves her under the line of being qualified for a telemetry job opening?

v. decent and v. professional? I would think that would get you weeded out before the interview. Spelling, punctuation, grammar and typos DO matter.

[Guest343211]

Not fitting in does NOT equal being bullied. And yes, they should hire someone they find "likable." Do you want to go to work everyday with a bunch of people you don't like? If you were the one to get to choose your coworkers, and everything else is equal, are you going to pick the people you don't like?

If Teacher Sue was the enemy, she wouldn't be nice enough to come here and give people advice on how to interview better. Instead she would sit in her office laughing maniacally at all the unlikable people.

The truth is, there is a relationship to this kind of "fitting in" mentality and how it is often used and horizontal and lateral violence. Often the reason people don't fit in is b/c the are prevented from fitting in but those that weild influence within the group. You'd think professional nurses with college educations and experience--who work with really sick and dying patients and stressed out families mind you--would GET that it's not about "high school" antics anymore--at least it shouldn't be. BUT THE HARD TRUTH IS, it is! It's beyond SAD.

I know it seems like we are moving way off from poor Teacher Sue's original post. (So sorry Teacher Sue!)

There is some real connection and pertinence in what "wish-me-luck" is saying. It's not always true, but it too often is.

Unless someone is grossly disrespectful or unprofessional or is truly negative, they needn't be dismissed out of hand--and the likeability issue should be secondary. By that I mean, when evaluating a candidate, you aren't hiring a buddy, or friend per se. Strive to be objective in looking at the whole picture--as you would want others to be toward you if the tables were turned.

All I am saying.

This was a good thread Teacher Sue! :)

[llg, PhD, RN]

llg, the following excerpt is where I drew my response from.

"From this I need to determine what kind of nurse they are, and how they will fit into our unit. And anyone who says that fitting in is not important is deluding themselves. Each hospital and each unit has a unique culture. Just look at all of the posts here from people who left a job because of this".

This is from Teacher Sue.

When Teacher Sue wrote: "From this I need to determine what kind of nurse they are ..." she was talking about their knowledge, skills, abilities, compassion for the patients, etc. So what is wrong with that? She wants to know what kind of nurse they are. That's what she SHOULD do! She doesn't want to hire a bad nurse who is stupid, lazy, and mean. Yes, she also wants someone who is going to get along with the other staff members and not cause a lot of interpersonal drama on the unit. Once again, that is a good and legitimate thing to consider when hiring someone. She wants to know whether or not they are a good nurse and someone good to work with. There is nothing wrong with that.

I'm sorry you were bullied. But Teacher Sue had nothing to do with that. Don't blame every nurse out there because you ran into a few mean ones. When we do that, it only makes us one of the new bullies in town.

[Guest343211]

Some folks are more likable than others after you've worked with them for six months. But anyone who cannot manage to be at least somewhat likable for an hour long interview should not be hired. The interviewee who is surly, arrogant, entitled, self-centered or otherwise unpleasant during the interview is probably going to be MUCH worse to work with.

Agree! :)

[Teacher Sue]

Yes, I would, if they presented a professional resume and cover letter.

Dear Teacher Sue,

would you consider interviewing a nurse with 1 year of experience in a Psych Center, who is v.decent and v.professional?

or the psych center experience leaves her under the line of being qualified for a telemetry job opening?

[Guest343211]

Teacher Sue, I know every unit has a culture and it's unique but there is never, I repeat never, any excuse for lateral violence. If you have a bunch of nurses and techs that get along okay and a couple who start stuff and have personality conflicts, I would get rid of those two people (even if they are experienced nurses) versus going through fifty new staff members because of the poor attitudes of those two people. Turn over costs money, any good manager knows that. Those new people who quit because of lateral violence could have been wonderful nurses. I think managers need to put their foot down and tell those nurses creating problems that they are not the ones who decide who stays and who leaves, the manager is (I left when a nurse informed me "you know, it's not only what your patients say about you that can get you fired, it's what your co-workers say"). Yeah, after that remark, I finished my shift, wrote a note giving my two week (my manager was never there) put it under the door, brought one to HR (and I kept a copy), did my two weeks and left. Inexcusable. I didn't go to work to make friends (it's wonderful if you get along with your co-workers enough to be friends) but I went there to take care of my patients. There's a problem when co-workers opinions and complaints trump patient preferences. Patient comes first.

I feel like managers use "every unit has a unique culture" as a cop out for not doing anything about lateral violence. Units do have their own culture but that does not mean there is discord. You get rid of the lateral violence, then the patients get better care. I have experienced people not wanting to help me because of personality conflict and you know what? It's the patient that suffers because some pts are up with two, some need to be turned, some need to be changed (and require two people), etc. I have actually had PT, a physician, and EMTs help me before because the nurses did not want to.

Like I said before, if people are complaining about co-workers being too slow or whatever, then the complainers should have to come up with a plan to help that person succeed (obviously, they know what that person is doing wrong) and inform the complainer that firing new comer is not an option (time management problems and everything is normal in a new comer); if they don't want to, then that's just because it's a personality conflict and I would definitely take complainer's complaints with a grain of salt. If complaining continued, I would write them up for lateral violence, and have a talk with them and warn them, next time, either go to another unit or be fired.

People don't leave because of "not fitting in"; they leave because of harassment. Maybe you are a great manager, I don't know you, but if you think people leave because they just don't "fit in" maybe you need to a good hard look at your unit.

Okay, rant over.

Unfortunately this is often enough quite true. What's worse is the problem is denied or kicked under the rug, and nothing can ever change until people--primarily leadership--are willing to accept and face the issue head on.

That's step one. It's hard to get leadership/management and some percentage of staff to get to step one. It's the orientee or the new person or whatever. Forget that they will take no responsibility with their approach to the new person--or accept the fact that they, as already established there, have leverage on their side. This can often make a favorable environment for what amounts to bullying. So, rather than giving true insight, balance, and support for the nurse that is new to the unit or institution, the subtly (or sometimes overtly) lord this over the newbie.

People often don't even understand the level of accountability they must have in dealing with others when they have the upper hand--but too many folks, rather than humbly looking at what that position means and requires of them (That is, that they actually need to go the extra mile--use their power and influence in a positive way go to the other extreme. They may also feel like their precepting, or the like, really translates to being a catalyst in the weeding process. A very BAD approach!!! Actually, that in and of itself is a bullying that folks rationalize way too often.

Having said that, there are times when new people may not try to work with and fit with others. If they are truly a constant, negative drain, and people have TRULY reached out, and objective and CONSISTENT measures were employed to chart them on their progress, why then management has to let them go.

But too often, the issue that I have seen is that there is a lack of true wisdom in terms of discerning this--either than or the manager says, they need their "influential others," and they don't want to rock the boat, so allow the negativity to go on--especially if on the surface, everything looks good. Easy to rationalize, "Hey, it was just a bad fit." What is? What is truly?

I have seen too many good, if not great nurses, get unfairly screwed over. And I have seen strange patterns of hiring, letting go, and then re-interviewing, hiring, letting go, and on and on with so many of the same positions. When you see this happening in a pattern on a regular basis, usually it is not the hired candidates, but it is the hospital or the particular unit. Some HR people don't know what to do with certain units, b/c of the ridiculous patterning.

For all the complaints about the cost of orienting new people, there is some kind of gain going on in certain places, b/c this pattern is almost constant. And no. Not everyone is leaving for reasons of "grad school, married to a resident physician that was just matched across the country, or is staying home with their new baby/babies." This pattern is quite puzzling, beyond problematic, and makes no sense at all. It's almost like these places are using orientees as agency or temps. Yes, they have preceptors, but they often can have charge rolls, or other patients, or are assigned to committee work. At least it makes the hospital look like they are tyring to maintain safer ratios, which is part of the whole Magnet piece as well. I have watched this cycling over and over and over. When I see this, I want to start humming something from The Who's albulm, "Whose Next."

Oh the games. . . .

[Radnurse54]

I do have a question about why you exclude someone for "job hopping" I find that in the 40 years I have been a nurse new nurses particularly move around while trying to find their best fit. I know I did that as a new nurse, I started out as a psych nurse and realized after a year that I was wrong and became an ER nurse where I worked for the next 28 years.

Just wanted to know what your thought was about that topic.

Thanks

[Teacher Sue]

Wow, I didn't think that a post about presenting yourself as a professional during an interview would create so much discussion!

First of all, Thank you Ruby Vee and llg for your comments.

For some of the other posts:

Having a unique culture is not a negative. I believe the culture on my unit is a supportive friendly team oriented culture where patient care comes first. The kind of person who would not fit into our unit is the new grad who is dismissive of the CNAs and secretaries, or the experienced nurse who proclaims that she will not work night shift because she has done her share and it's time for "some of these young snots" to do their share. This attitude is completely unacceptable, and I will not consider these candidates.

I usually work ten hours a day. I attend patient care conference every day, have a service line meeting every week, go to budget meetings, Shared Decision meetings, Leadership meetings and numerous others on a regular basis. I do budget, payroll, staff evaluations, investigate safety reports, develop and lead PI projects. I round on patients every day. Should I work twelve hours a day just so I can take the time to talk to everyone who walks in or calls about a job? I don't have the time to do fourteen interviews for one position, so I need to eliminate some of the candidates. Should I pick them out of a hat, or should I look at the resumes and use the same criteria for all of them?

And communication is very important. Making the statement "I don't interview well" is a cop out. If there is a skill you need to perform a certain job, and you don't have it, you learn it. If you need to be ACLS certified, you take an ACLS class. If you need to do med calculations, you learn the formulas and practice. Why is learning how to communicate in a professional manner any different?

[Teacher Sue]

This is not job hopping. I do understand that people may move through several jobs before they find the one that is right. What I call job hopping is having multiple jobs over a long span of years that lasted for a few months to a year. If you have had ten jobs in fifteen years, you have a proven record of instability. In my experience, these kinds of people usually stay at a position until they have an issue of some kind, then move on. I want a stable staff. I do not want to be going through this process again in six months because a new hire decides to leave.

I do have a question about why you exclude someone for "job hopping" I find that in the 40 years I have been a nurse new nurses particularly move around while trying to find their best fit. I know I did that as a new nurse, I started out as a psych nurse and realized after a year that I was wrong and became an ER nurse where I worked for the next 28 years.

Just wanted to know what your thought was about that topic.

Thanks