Please don't eat your young.

DusktilDawn · Apr 24, 2007

great posts by tweety and others. if there were more of you out there, nurses might not be most willing to quit the field so readily. i am one of those old nurses who like to give our future a chance as well.
some of the posts here, deny nurses eat their young. i think we do. i don't know why. i would like to see it stop. i think the oldies like to lord it over the newbies. something like "i know that and you don't." they must get some sort of emotional reward for doing so.
as some of you know i am taking an mlis course. this was recently posted by a fellow student:
"reading all of the postings reminds me of how generous librarians are, always willing to share their knowledge and experience. maybe that has something to do with the history of librarianship as a field made up predominately of women."
i know i digress here, but i almost went off. i think that nursing is made up predominately of women and see "nurses eating their young" as related. and again i don't know why.

actually what others are speaking out against is the perpetuation of a stereotype. "nurses eating their young" is a stereotype, work place bullying is an issue and i see no one denying that. frankly i've seen bad behavior from old and new nurses, neither has that market cornered, and neither does a specific gender have the market cornered on bad behavior either.

i really find no similarities between a librarian and nurses, with the exception of it being a "traditionally" female dominated profession. i will digress here.

let's see, a librarian:

works in an environment where those that enter it know they are to be quiet and respectful towards others and they know why they are there and what they're looking for. in fact there a type of sereneness in the enviroment of a library.

things are organized by the dewy decimal system, a book falling may be the extent of anything unexpected happening.

no food or drinks usually, so that leaves very little mess to pick up and no requests for "waitress" type orders, not to mention people know enough to throw away their trash.

"customers" are pretty self reliant in finding what they need, perhaps occasionally interrupting the librarian to be pointed in the right direction and they come to her when they ready to check out any books.

they only oversee themselves and only themselves. short-staffing is a non-issue.

optimal environment to foster a newbie in.

on the other hand nurses:

work in an environment where people may come in with their emotions running high, confused, overwhelmed, and even feeling lost. quiet is a four-letter word known to bring chaos raining down when it is uttered. respect may be the last thing considered depending on the situatition. in fact the lack of respect towards nurses comes from every conceivable direction, and i'm not talking about nurse-on-nurse. doctors, clerks, housekeeping, dietary, nas, pt/ot, pharmacy, transportation, etc, etc, each of these departments is guarenteed to have someone who feels the need to "put the nurses in their place." let's not forget the patients/families/visitors who will also take their frustrations out on the nursing staff.

no matter how organized a nurse is, there will always be the unexpected, which usually happens at the most inopportune time. not only are we not staffed for the unexpected, if we are adequately staffed to start with, we are told "to do the best you can," yet will still be expected to far exceed our best. someone will always be "monday morning quarterbacking" us on what we should have, could have, shouldn't have done.

we often have to feed and provide fluids to those that cannot do so themselves, and due to the trend towards "customer service" that is now extended towards their families/visitors. any spills/messes made we have to make sure it is taken care of because it is our responsibility to ensure a safe environment.

our "customers" are anything but self-reliant, that is why they are there. their needs range and vary, from simple to complex. we go to them to meet their needs. we are supposed to ensure their health and well-being, and are not often supported in this endeavor by the very facilities that employ us.

short-staffing and inadequate support staff are issues for nurses. we coordinate the care our patient receives, it is up to us to make sure that others complete their jobs when it comes to meeting the needs of the patient. we are the bottom line when it comes to accountability and responsiblity for a patient.

hardly an optimal environment to foster a newbie.

comparing these two professions is like comparing apples to prunes. i may have met the rare rude, abnoxious librarian, but i have never met any that were harried, harassed, frustrated, and exhausted, but i've met plenty of nurses who were.

i also encourage anyone feeling "eaten" gain skills of self-assertion and if truly being bullied, seek help. here is a resource for you to help you cope with bullies in all walks of life:
http://www.bullyonline.com
remember, in so many cases, half of any equation like this is you....you can change a few things, mainly, your attitude and how you react to such people who give you a hard time. i wish you good luck. hang in there.

in regards to work place bullying, which is actually what this topic should be called, great advice sbe.

SmilingBluEyes · Apr 24, 2007

http://www.bullyonline.org

correction on that reference. sorry for any inconvenience!

jill48, ASN, RN · Apr 24, 2007

i did not mean to insult anyone by using the phrase "nurses eat their young". please accept my apology if i have offended anyone. i'm sure many of you are very helpful to students. however, this semester in particular we have had several incidents with the nurses and students in my clinical group. just yesterday a charge nurse literally pushed a student who was "in her way" at the nurses station. it was not an emergency situation.
[color=#48d1cc]i usually do not have too many problems with nurses, i am very respectful and assertive as well. i do my work and i don't mind helping out when i can. i just can't help noticing that there are quite a few nurses who seem to resent student nurses. just an observation.

i don't think you offended anyone. we just would like to see the stereotype go away. there was nothing wrong with your post. good luck.

Kiwinurse1 · Apr 25, 2007

you make me laugh - I liked that comment

first_lobster, RN · Apr 25, 2007

I just posted the other day over in the MICU area about a student who had overstepped her bounds by asking a patient about meds, when I hadn't even looked at the patient yet. I was really upset when I got called into the office and lectured on being nice to students and this made me feel two ways: first, I was mad because this "poor defensless student" had cried, and I got in trouble for setting boundries for the student. Then, I got really mad because Someone else had probably been really mean to this student, and I was getting the brunt of it. We have a couple people where I work who are outright mean to students, and that's just sad. But, don't assume that every time a nurse corrects you, or gets upset with you, or says something that you don't think is nice enough that they are mean, and hateful. Sometimes you are really doing something wrong, like the student that I snapped at for dissapering for most of the day, and then taking a two-and-a-half hour lunch. (I snapped at her afterwards for asking me to basically do her work for her because she hadn't been around the patient enough to do it herself). And sometimes the nurse is just really having a bad day. And if this nurse is mean to everyone, and continues to be such, then make your decision about them and go to your professor. This problem is not just the nurses, sometimes it's the students.

I do have to say, though, that I do enjoy the crunchy ones (but only in moderation - I'm on a diet).

oneLoneNurse · Apr 25, 2007

DusktilDawn, well thought out comparison between librarianship and nursing.

Thanks, Kevin.

santhony44, MSN, RN, NP · Apr 25, 2007

I couldn't have said it any better. I am not disrespectful or mean to any student, but neither do I suffer fools lightly.
You reap what you sow - and that goes for BOTH sides!

:yeahthat:

I see student nurses in a clinic setting. I like having students too, and like to teach.

However:

Come to clinicals prepared to work and to learn. I don't mind questions at all, but if I try to show or tell you a couple of things and you act as if I'm boring you, I'm not going to bother. Pay attention, act interested, and ask questions, and I'll go out of my way and take extra time to teach you.

Try to take some initiative and see what you can do to be helpful.

I'm not in the least interested in hearing you talk to your fellow students about your love life, your nursing instructor, your new car, etc. etc. If I have to interrrupt your conversation to ask you to do something, or to get past you in a narrow hallway, I'm going to get annoyed.

If I get annoyed, I will make it a point to talk to your instructor. Ditto if I'm really impressed.

No, nurses aren't expected to jump to attention when someone "senior" appears. However, if you're not doing anything at the moment, don't wait for the person who does have something to do to ask for the chair. Have the common courtesy to offer it!

You do indeed reap what you sow.

cardsRN · Apr 25, 2007

i'm trying to cut down, but you know how it is... someone brings a pack in and they just look so tasty! i i think to myself, i'll just have one. a few hours later, recover my pt from crisis and in the stress aftermath, well... just one more to steady my nerves. then it's lunch time and damned if i don't have another one. they're just so good! before i know it it's 5 am and i've got the morning munchies. just one more before my shift ends... :lol2:

New Horizons · Apr 25, 2007

as a nursing student i am having a hard time understanding why a good number of nurses are so nasty to nursing students. don't they realize that we are the people who will help fill the shortages in their facilities making their jobs easier? don't get me wrong, i have worked with some great nurses who have been very helpful to me during my clinical rotations. however, the nurses who "eat their young" should know that nursing students compare notes. we warn each other about facilities or units where the nurses have treated us poorly and do not apply for jobs in those places. if your facility has a staffing shortage, being nice to student nurses may help fill the gap later on.

i am a second career student and have had my share of work experience. during clinicals i have run into some nice nurses and some not so nice nurses. i go into my clinical experience with two things in mind, to #1 get an education and #2 to figure our which facilities and units i would like to work for and which ones i definitely do not want to work for. i have been evaluating from day one. i look at our clinical time as a classroom and as a reverse interview where i have an extra 6 -12 weeks to evaluate the place.

when nurses are cranky, i leave them alone and don't give them much thought, because we have our clinical intructor to assist us. i attribute the crankiness to a number of things:

1. our clinical assignments are at teaching hospitals, so maybe they are just tired of seeing students. hey, not my fault and i can't do anything about that.

2. politics and dynamics of the unit.

3. they don't like their jobs.

4. they are burnt out.

5. they have issues in their personal life that have nothing to do with students.

if i know i am not doing anything to jeopardize a patient and i am a willing learner i don't take the attitudes personally.

Ruby Vee, BSN · Apr 25, 2007

as a nursing student i am having a hard time understanding why a good number of nurses are so nasty to nursing students. don't they realize that we are the people who will help fill the shortages in their facilities making their jobs easier? don't get me wrong, i have worked with some great nurses who have been very helpful to me during my clinical rotations. however, the nurses who "eat their young" should know that nursing students compare notes. we warn each other about facilities or units where the nurses have treated us poorly and do not apply for jobs in those places. if your facility has a staffing shortage, being nice to student nurses may help fill the gap later on.

please don't beat your dog.

i'm sorry that you've been on units or at facilities where you percieve the staff as treating you poorly. have you thought about taking a look at your own half of the interaction to see what you may have done to irritate those nurses who you think treated you poorly? or have you thought about the idea that the nastiness may be entirely in your perception?

please don't label a whole profession because you've had bad experiences with a few people.

jill48, ASN, RN · Apr 25, 2007

please don't beat your dog.

that's funny. :chuckle

SmilingBluEyes · Apr 25, 2007

:yeahthat:
I see student nurses in a clinic setting. I like having students too, and like to teach.
However:
Come to clinicals prepared to work and to learn. I don't mind questions at all, but if I try to show or tell you a couple of things and you act as if I'm boring you, I'm not going to bother. Pay attention, act interested, and ask questions, and I'll go out of my way and take extra time to teach you.
Try to take some initiative and see what you can do to be helpful.
I'm not in the least interested in hearing you talk to your fellow students about your love life, your nursing instructor, your new car, etc. etc. If I have to interrrupt your conversation to ask you to do something, or to get past you in a narrow hallway, I'm going to get annoyed.
If I get annoyed, I will make it a point to talk to your instructor. Ditto if I'm really impressed.
No, nurses aren't expected to jump to attention when someone "senior" appears. However, if you're not doing anything at the moment, don't wait for the person who does have something to do to ask for the chair. Have the common courtesy to offer it!
You do indeed reap what you sow.

well said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!