PhD or DNP to become Faculty?

Posted
by adventure_rn adventure_rn, BSN Member Nurse

Specializes in NICU, PICU.

You are reading page 2 of PhD or DNP to become Faculty?. If you want to start from the beginning Go to First Page.

elizabeast7, ADN, BSN, MSN

Specializes in TMS, Education, Simulation. Has 10 years experience. 35 Posts

The vast majority of my fellow faculty have DNPs due to affordability and availability. There is also one EDd and one PhD. Most of the DNPs focused on management in lieu of getting a clinical degree/NP unless they were already practicing as an NP. I believe it has been previously mentioned - higher academia seems to prefer PhD candidates for tenure track positions but I have seen both EDd and DNP obtain tenure. One of the issues is that there are few education focused doctoral programs for nursing - most are research, management or practice. I believe this is an issue that is being rectified as we are recognizing that to have professional nurses, we need professional nurse educators and more emphasis on providing formal programs for nurse educators is happening with a number of them starting in the last few years.

Good luck!

amoLucia

amoLucia

Specializes in retired LTC. 7,735 Posts

I was going to question something that PP elizabeast7 mentioned - what about an EdD? Or is this something that has become obsolete or non-existent in the nsg field?

A friend has his EdD, but he was NOT a nurse. He was a Superintendent in a public school district. He was administrative - not research. I know I'm talking 'apples' vs oranges' but am just asking.

elizabeast7, ADN, BSN, MSN

Specializes in TMS, Education, Simulation. Has 10 years experience. 35 Posts

In my experience, EdDs are not preferred in academia. There are very few EdDs in nursing itself. The one other faculty I know who has hers has her MSN and then an EdD in secondary ed - so the terminal degree isn't technically nsg. I am actually enrolled in an EdD for nsg at TC but it's one of the only ones I've found in my research - most terminal nsg degrees are PhD or DNP. In my personal opinion - and in TC's - EdDs for nsg faculty are going to become more prevalent. How can we develop professional nurses if we do not have professional nurse educators?

HOPEforRNs

HOPEforRNs, ADN, BSN, MSN

Specializes in Education, Skills & Simulation, Med/Surg, Pharm. Has 13 years experience. 170 Posts

I teach at a top nursing program and they STRONGLY prefer PhD. You will not find any tenure track or research track that are anything but PhD. Most everyone else has a DNP but it doesn't get you anything extra except administration not bugging you to go get a doctorate degree.

The EdD was the first doctorate for nurses. It's a shame it's fallen by the wayside. PhD is for researchers. DNP is designed for APRNs. EdD seems perfect.

A university I know of is also creating a DNE which would be super amazing if it catches on.

Amednurse

Amednurse

Specializes in Progressive Care. Has 10 years experience. 2 Posts

I can say that in Florida, a program requires at least one PhD or EdD lead faculty to function. No program can be run by DNP or MSN educators. Also if you desire to lead a program one day then you’ll need your PhD or EdD. You could also do a DNP/PhD as there are a few in the country. EdD are Education Doctorates and there are nursing versions of these such as this one: https://www.tc.columbia.edu/health-and-behavior-studies/nursing-education/academics/doctor-of-education/edd-degree/ Columbia Univeristy

If you are primarily wanting to teach.....get a PHD. I do think if you specifically a want non-tenure you would have to explain why you don't want a tenure position . The DNP is a practice degree.

PatMac10,RN, RN

Specializes in Nursing Education, CVICU, Float Pool. Has 9 years experience. 1 Article; 1,164 Posts

I have the same question as I finish my MSN in nursing education. There is a desire to create more educator tracks for DNP programs. AACN and NLN have both mentioned that utilizing both PhD and DNP prepared faculty in the academic and clinical training of nurses will be needed to meet the diverse needs of future nursing students.

As of now, most DNP programs are still focused on APRN training/leadership and Nursing Executive and Administrative Leadership. There are only a handful of schools that offer the DNP with a education/educational leadership track.

I think a DNP with a Educator Track options makes sense. The DNP-prepared nurse is suppose to be an expert clinician, prepared to take the lead. All educators should have at least some level of expertise in Nursing, if they are going to be teaching. Because teaching is an elevated function. Teaching requires that you know the subject yourself well. Additionally, nurse educators specifically, are preparing others to practice nursing, so the educators themselves must, again, be excellent practitioners (not necessarily NPs) of the profession of Nursing.

We have so much research sitting there, waiting to be implemented, not just at the bedside, but in the classroom. Nursing curricula needs updates and redesigning and innovation, all of which are things the DNP is well suited to, as well as PhD. I enjoy discovering new research that can practically help me as an educator and as a bedside nurse. However, I know that I wouldn’t want the focus of my career to be in Producing that research.

Like someone mentioned, historically, PhD program curriculums typically includes little or no formal coursework on pedagogy or the art of teaching or curriculum development and the like. So if a person didn’t get a MSN that focused on nursing education or have a previous degree or course work in adult education, they will have limited preparation in education.

I realize that some PhD programs allow for some degree of curriculum customization and design, but the majority of the work and curriculum in that program type is focused developing new research and adding to the collective body of nursing knowledge.

The EdD (Doctorate in Education) is there and may have many courses in formal pedagogy, but it’s often not nursing or clinically focused and isn’t a terminal degree in nursing, but in Education. Although, there are a number of schools offering a EdD with a nursing education specialization or focus, such as Columbia University and a few others.

Columbia’s EdD in a nursing education:

https://www.tc.columbia.edu/health-and-behavior-studies/nursing-education/

Both DNP and PhD tracks have been noted to needed to have More options for formal educator prepRations, as this Sigma Theta Tau Article brings out:

https://stti.confex.com/stti/nerc18/webprogram/Paper89662.html

Many schools, and more each year, are opening up tenure tracks for DNP or EdD prepares educators, though the PhD still is the more traditional route to tenure at most (especially research-focused) academic institutions. Things are changing thigh, and it’s about time, because we need to change the way we educate nurses. Nursing isn’t even the same as it was 10 years ago, or even 6.5 years ago when I graduated with my ADN at 20 years old. We need a rebalancing of teaching nursing theory and practical nursing skills, because we are missing that mark in education on many levels.

I’m attaching some articles that discuss the DNP and it’s role as a degree for academic and clinical nurse educators.

the_DNP_and_nursing_education_highlights_potential_and_promise.pdf

Endorsing the DNP pathway for Educators .pdf

PatMac10,RN, RN

Specializes in Nursing Education, CVICU, Float Pool. Has 9 years experience. 1 Article; 1,164 Posts

On 9/14/2019 at 11:04 PM, Rnis said:

If you are primarily wanting to teach.....get a PHD. I do think if you specifically a want non-tenure you would have to explain why you don't want a tenure position . The DNP is a practice degree.

But that is changing, and as highlighted, having a PhD doesn’t mean you will have much formal education in how to be an educator. There are schools out there who offer a PhD in Nursing Education and not just nursing in general, but they are on the minority, just and DNP programs with educator tracks are in the minority.

HOPEforRNs

HOPEforRNs, ADN, BSN, MSN

Specializes in Education, Skills & Simulation, Med/Surg, Pharm. Has 13 years experience. 170 Posts

56 minutes ago, PatMac10,RN said:

But that is changing, and as highlighted, having a PhD doesn’t mean you will have much formal education in how to be an educator. There are schools out there who offer a PhD in Nursing Education and not just nursing in general, but they are on the minority, just and DNP programs with educator tracks are in the minority.

This is why I hope the DNE becomes a big thing or that EdD degrees become a thing again. No current common pathways prepare you to teach.

PatMac10,RN, RN

Specializes in Nursing Education, CVICU, Float Pool. Has 9 years experience. 1 Article; 1,164 Posts

11 minutes ago, HOPEforRNs said:

This is why I hope the DNE becomes a big thing or that EdD degrees become a thing again. No current common pathways prepare you to teach.

Never heard of the DNE. But there are reforms to make more DNP programs with educators tracks, at least 3 such programs already exist, that I know of. 2 other programs offer subspecialties that cant be pursued at a track in Ireland, but offered as a track that can be added to another specialization pathway like APRN, or leadership.

Regis University: https://www.regiscollege.edu/academics/majors-and-programs/doctor-nursing-practice-dnp-post-ms-option/dnp-nursing-education

American Sentinel University: https://www.americansentinel.edu/degrees-programs/nursing/online-doctoral-degree-programs/dnp-educational-leadership/

Grand Canyon University: https://www.gcu.edu/degree-programs/dnp-educational-leadership

Programs who offer sub specialty options to add to another DNP concentration:

George Washington University: https://nursing.gwu.edu/dnp-nursing-practice

University of South Alabama: https://www.southalabama.edu/colleges/con/nurseeducsubspec.html

TiffyRN, ADN, BSN, PhD

Specializes in NICU. Has 29 years experience. 2,309 Posts

I've just completed my dissertation and am applying for faculty positions. . I've always been told I'm in a PhD program in nursing. The only detail being that since I came in with a BSN, I was required to complete a handful of MSN-education courses. Now I've noticed how my degree is listed within the "Academic progress" area of my student account: PhD: Doctor of Philosophy in Nursing Education. I feel like this only helps my case for future faculty positions because while I completed all the same courses as my MSN cohorts seeking PhD, I also have 18 hours education hours (and a 180 hour teaching practicum).

But, I feel a little surprised at how my degree is listed on my account page. I won't have a degree conferral until the end of the semester though my dissertation was completed in early September.

Degree.png
HOPEforRNs

HOPEforRNs, ADN, BSN, MSN

Specializes in Education, Skills & Simulation, Med/Surg, Pharm. Has 13 years experience. 170 Posts

39 minutes ago, PatMac10,RN said:

Never heard of the DNE. But there are reforms to make more DNP programs with educators tracks, at least 3 such programs already exist, that I know of. 2 other programs offer subspecialties that cant be pursued at a track in Ireland, but offered as a track that can be added to another specialization pathway like APRN, or leadership.

Regis University: https://www.regiscollege.edu/academics/majors-and-programs/doctor-nursing-practice-dnp-post-ms-option/dnp-nursing-education

American Sentinel University: https://www.americansentinel.edu/degrees-programs/nursing/online-doctoral-degree-programs/dnp-educational-leadership/

Grand Canyon University: https://www.gcu.edu/degree-programs/dnp-educational-leadership

Programs who offer sub specialty options to add to another DNP concentration:

George Washington University: https://nursing.gwu.edu/dnp-nursing-practice

University of South Alabama: https://www.southalabama.edu/colleges/con/nurseeducsubspec.html

DNE = doctor of nursing education. Think DNP but for education instead of advanced practice.

"A viable solution to the need for well-qualified doctorally prepared nurse educators is a terminal degree that prepares expert nurse educators in application of pedagogy and best evidence in nursing education, leveraging preparation with clinical expertise. A proposed doctor of nursing education (DNE) degree could provide an option for nurses who desire to pursue a terminal degree aligned with their teaching-learning goals. The DNE degree could provide a pipeline of educated expert nursing faculty in academia as well as professional development specialists in health care."

Here's more info from the paper published about it!

Doctoral Degree Preferences for Nurse Educators

Findings From a National Study

King, Tara Spalla PhD, RN; Melnyk, Bernadette Mazurek PhD, RN, APRN-CNP, FAANP, FNAP, FAAN; O'Brien, Tara PhD, RN, CNE; Bowles, Wendy PhD, RN, APRN-CNP, CNE; Schubert, Carolyn DNP, RN-BC, CNE; Fletcher, Linnea EdD, RN, CEN, TCRN; Anderson, Cindy M. PhD, RN, APRN-CNP, ANEF, FAHA, FNAP, FAAN

Nurse Educator: July 16, 2019 - Volume Publish Ahead of Print - Issue - p

doi: 10.1097/NNE.0000000000000730