One thing that is nails on chalkboard to me is when I hear my fellow nurses use double negatives and other blatant grammar mistakes. I'm speaking of English as a first language, domestically born and raised people.
I feel as this detracts from the professional image of nursing. We are supposed to be educated professionals. Poor grammar makes nursing look like a blue collar trade to those who are educated, such as our physicians and many members of the public.
Let me clarify that I don't harshly judge the intelligence or moral character of people with poor grammar. But, I feel strongly that nurses should project an image of being educated professionals in our speech and demeanor. Thanks for reading.
Specializes in ER, ICU, Infusion, peds, informatics.
many years before becoming an rn, as an lpn in training, i was taught that grammer wasn't paramount when charting. i was taught to use a few words as possible to convey the message on the chart to conserve space. when doing this, grammer often flies out of the window of syntax.
and, when i went back to school to obtain my degree, many of my instructors praised my succint method of charting.
presently, with this computerized charting, there is only so much space to chart. therefore, we are encouraged to use as few words as possible, making proper language useage impractical.
but we're not talking about "poor grammar" as it relates to brevity in charting. things like complete sentences aren't so important when it comes to writing nursing notes.
what difference does it make whether a person spells, or pronounces a word correctlly as long as the intended message is conveyed.
conveying the intended meaning is one of the issues we are talking about. grammar is a set of rules created to enable us to communicate information/messages accuratly. basic grammar rules can still be used, even when not writing in complete sentences.
reading sentences like "pt don't got know drainage on dsg," makes me cringe -- but not becuase the word "the" has been omitted. i actually had to say it to myself to get the meaning.
as for a nurse's poor grammer making them look unprofessional or a lawyer utilizing the same to make them appear less professional to a jury, it's simply false.
if the president of the u.s.a. can speak with poor syntax and mispronunciation, i seriously doubt that a jury would consider a nurse less of a professional.
as a matter of fact, many of those same people who use improper grammer are jurors.
were a lawyer for a plantiff to utilize such a technique, it wouldn't serve his clients best interests.
it isn't so much that improper grammar in itself can cause problems if the nursing notes are brought into court; rather, the issue is if the poor use of grammar causes the meaning of what was written to come into question.
Specializes in Alzheimer's, Geriatrics, Chem. Dep..
I know this thread started out as a vent, and at times it has been amusing, but we all have our areas of weakness - math, grammar, tact, science, tardiness, etc etc...
I think we've made our point - that it's important to have basic grammar and spelling skills in order to be understood, as well as to earn greater respect as professionals.
I think the thread has served its purpose, anyone agree? Just because someone has these skills doesn't mean they are perfect nurses.
...well, if George W. Bush uses poor grammar on a regular basis, it must be OK! I'm sure no one has ever accused him of being unintelligent, or of being less than qualified for his current occupation. Does no one else cringe at "new kya ler" for nuclear? Honestly, we all make mistakes here and there. Most of us have forgotten how to diagram a sentence. It just seems that we should make at least a halfhearted effort to learn some basic rules (its/it's, they're/their/there, etc.) to help the image of our profession. Much of the fault lies with our educational system, but that's a topic for another thread.
personally, i feel that this obsession many have with grammer, spelling, and pronunciation, is a perfect indicator of why many poor people and people from certain cultures, races, and/or ethinicities don't recieve the same level of healthcare as others.
what difference does it make whether a person spells, or pronounces a word correctlly as long as the intended message is conveyed.
when i was a little girl, my family moved to the northwest, i had started first grade in the south where the starting age was 6. when we moved, the starting age was 7. so, i was a year younger then all the other kids in my grade. the teacher resented this and made lite of my southern accent. so much so that she forced me to take phonics because she said she couldn't understand a word i said. i spoke perfect english except for the southern accent. persecuted for my accent alone; and, it made me feel different from all the other students and ashamed of my heritage.
i don't know how many of you are familiar with the etiquette guru, miss manners. she is a wonderful example of someone who has taken the time to learn the intricacies of social interaction. she can tell you which fork (grammar) to use, and when to use it (usage). her explanations at times decry the loss of social niceties in our relentlessly casual society. she longs for a time when people understood and shared a sense of public decorum rather than the current communal "let it all hang out" philosophy.
however--and this is a hugely significant however--she has never approved of using the practice of good manners as a bludgeon to terrorize those who stumble over the rules but mean well. the rules do matter, but kindness and decency matter more.
that is why we have free rein in a thread like this one to discuss all kinds of language ideas and ideals, while the same observations would be discouraged in a thread on another topic.
language is made up of form and content. in many settings, it is best (and the practice of good manners) to discern content without focusing overmuch on form. where content is not clear, it may be necessary to probe further. but, as a rule, in everyday circumstances, going around correcting those who are merely trying to carry on a conversation with you is considered an act of hostility.
among the acceptable exceptions would be an academic setting where such correction is a given; a group notice in the case of a common mistake (medical words frequently misspelled in charting); a polite inquiry to a close friend (who isn't likely to stay miffed too long)--did you know that irregardless isn't really a word?; and escalating threats to a spouse that if he/she says literally when he/she means figuratively one more time, you will be obliged to perform the vulcan death grip in short order (even miss manners has her limits).
it is neither kind nor wise to correct someone in front of other people; to give constant, unasked-for editing in regular conversation; to take great pride and pleasure in humiliating others in the hopes of establishing your own superiority; or to mock folks who speak in a way that is culturally or socially different.
correct use of language is important if for no other reason than that we know what we're deviating from when we speak and write casually. there can be beauty and muscle in well-constructed sentences with plenty of room left over for the passion of street language, the knotty grip of sailing jargon, and the buttery elegance of cooking terms.
all of this said, there is no excuse, none whatsoever, to use adherance to a standard to wound or mortify anyone, especially children. young people need to be taught with tenderness and have instilled in them (via inspiration and example) an appreciation for the nuances of language and the power it contains.
finding this thread has been like discovering buried treasure--a little sand and grit (as we disagree and hash things out), but mostly full of gems.
When you're speaking, "would've [correct] and "would of" [a real travesty of word justice] sound exactly the same. Amend your thinking to the proper spelling and no one will ever know you once;) thought you were wrong. Easy fix.:w00t:
I was raised next door to 5 school teachers (Grandmother and 4 sisters). If I did the double negative or said 'ain't' or ended my sentances with a preposition, I was vulture food. Nothing was worse than bad grammar. I heard from the time I started speaking that bad grammar made you look stupid.
I don't know how many of you are familiar with the etiquette guru, Miss Manners. She is a wonderful example of someone who has taken the time to learn the intricacies of social interaction. She can tell you which fork (grammar) to use, and when to use it (usage). Her explanations at times decry the loss of social niceties in our relentlessly casual society. She longs for a time when people understood and shared a sense of public decorum rather than the current communal "let it all hang out" philosophy.
However--and this is a hugely significant however--she has never approved of using the practice of good manners as a bludgeon to terrorize those who stumble over the rules but mean well. The rules do matter, but kindness and decency matter more.
That is why we have free rein in a thread like this one to discuss all kinds of language ideas and ideals, while the same observations would be discouraged in a thread on another topic.
Language is made up of form and content. In many settings, it is best (and the practice of good manners) to discern content without focusing overmuch on form. Where content is not clear, it may be necessary to probe further. But, as a rule, in everyday circumstances, going around correcting those who are merely trying to carry on a conversation with you is considered an act of hostility.
Among the acceptable exceptions would be an academic setting where such correction is a given; a group notice in the case of a common mistake (medical words frequently misspelled in charting); a polite inquiry to a close friend (who isn't likely to stay miffed too long)--did you know that irregardless isn't really a word?; and escalating threats to a spouse that if he/she says literally when he/she means figuratively one more time, you will be obliged to perform the Vulcan death grip in short order (even Miss Manners has her limits).
It is neither kind nor wise to correct someone in front of other people; to give constant, unasked-for editing in regular conversation; to take great pride and pleasure in humiliating others in the hopes of establishing your own superiority; or to mock folks who speak in a way that is culturally or socially different.
Correct use of language is important if for no other reason than that we know what we're deviating from when we speak and write casually. There can be beauty and muscle in well-constructed sentences with plenty of room left over for the passion of street language, the knotty grip of sailing jargon, and the buttery elegance of cooking terms.
All of this said, there is no excuse, none whatsoever, to use adherance to a standard to wound or mortify anyone, especially children. Young people need to be taught with tenderness and have instilled in them (via inspiration and example) an appreciation for the nuances of language and the power it contains.
Finding this thread has been like discovering buried treasure--a little sand and grit (as we disagree and hash things out), but mostly full of gems.
Specializes in Med/Surg, Ortho, Rehab, ACU-Telemetry.
the same thing applies to online dating services. if i happen to see a good looking guy (rarely ), but their profile shows nothing but mispelled words and bad grammar, than i just bypass that profile real quick .
Specializes in Alzheimer's, Geriatrics, Chem. Dep..
The same thing applies to online dating services. If I happen to see a good looking guy (rarely ), but their profile shows nothing but mispelled words and bad grammar, than I just bypass that profile REAL quick ...
the same thing applies to online dating services. if i happen to see a good looking guy (rarely ), but their profile shows nothing but mispelled words and bad grammar, than i just bypass that profile real quick .
the same thing applies to online dating services. if i happen to see a good looking guy (rarely ), but their profile shows nothing but mispelled words and bad grammar, than i just bypass that profile real quick .
it is definately a pet peeve for me!!
kathy, rn
ohio
at the risk of running the etiquette analogy right into the ground, poor language skills are akin to bad table manners. you could have a nice time at the movie, but if the guy (or girl) slurps, burps, and uses the tablecloth for a napkin, all bets may well be off.
there was a study (don't know who did it or when or where, so don't ask) that determined that no matter how brilliant most people are, they will be limited in their promotional possibilities by--ta-da--their manners and their communications skills. makes sense to me.
"et" was taught to us at our school as an abbreviation for and. I thought that it was commonly used as we use it at my facility all the time, but apparently it is both not used by some et not known by some, as well as not liked by some.
Leslie
I'm one of the "old" nurses (40 years)...sure "et" is "and"...because it is latin. We learned it as proper to use...like "p.o." means "per os" (mouth) also latin. Lots of our abbreviations come from latin, and us old nurses still use them. I can't imagine why anyone would object to "et".
Now, one of my pet peeves is when CNAs say "I got your stats for you"...instead of "sats" for O2 SATuration. I explain to them I didn't need them STAT...lol
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CritterLover, BSN, RN
929 Posts
it isn't so much that improper grammar in itself can cause problems if the nursing notes are brought into court; rather, the issue is if the poor use of grammar causes the meaning of what was written to come into question.
some of what is written out there is that bad.