None of you will like what I have to say. But let me kick the hard truth to you. Honestly about 50% of people I talk to are in nursing school or are taking pre-reqs for nursing school. This is a major red flag for several reasons. If you have not noticed, nursing wages/benefits have been on the down trend.
Pension?? goodbye.
Crud 401k 403b plans hello. Raise? LOL "sorry hospital is working out financial issues, maybe next year".
Nevermind if you work for a community/SNF agency. Yet insurance companies, medicare derived/gov agencies, and anyone else from the top 1% will continue to blast the RN as "shortage" in order to drive drones of students into nursing schools pulling each others hair out on the way to land a seat. Proof of this is, let's see (ABSN ***** ADN, BSN, diploma, LPN/LVN bridge to RN programs, RN to BSN) Why do these different routes exist? To flood the RN market as fast as possible to drive the wage, need, and profession into the ground.
Let's look at our oh so loyal CNA's. If you can find one that isn't in nursing school to be a nurse, ask them how much they make?
Look at LPN's 20-30 years ago and look at them today??
Surely the ANA and other organizations treated them with respect. The RN is next, so make sure to support your local nursing agency so they can do nothing for you. So they can be paid off by organizations so powerful that no one can say no and "not have the power to stop a bill". So they can continue to cry nursing shortage when this is not true.
RNs today are treated like children and are required to demonstrate fundamental task and other skills in inservices which were designed for nothing else but cut throat. To place blame of UTI's and poor patient satisfaction on the nurse.
If you are an RN today, your only safety net is to become an APRN if you want to live comfortably but in several decades the APRN will be under attack just like the LPN had been an RNs currently are. "OH the aging population is going to need nurses" You really think so?
Nursing homes are shutting down and now elderly people live at home with "24 hour care takers" that get paid **** wages and do things only an RN should be doing. You don't think so? Wake up.
None of this is to say that I hate nursing. I love helping people who are mentally ill, suffering from dementia, sick, or on their death beds. It is when we do great things for them that my love for nursing shines. There aren't other people standing around to reward you for your great deeds.
When the family comes in the next day complaining about everything, they never had a chance to see how well their dying loved one was cared for. Your good deeds will never be rewarded, but in a safe place in your heart.
I am just here to open the eyes of people who are intelligent and looking for a new career. I think you may find better job security else where. Invest your time in classes and money else where. Nursing is honestly under great attack right now and the future is black.
Hence, the so called "false" nursing shortage. Nurses that should be retiring just aren't retiring, which is one of the reasons why new nurses of all ages can't find a job (notice I said one of the reasons, not the ONLY or MAJOR reason).
So just curious what criteria would you use to decide which nurses "should" be retiring?
I have my personal yard stick which includes but is not limited to when I'm not longer agile enough to bob and weave effectively to avoid contact with a hitting, kicking, spitting adolescent as well as when I start waivering in my willingness to immediately shut down the relentless browbeating for benzos, opiates and stimulants from my cluster b crowd.
Specializes in OR, Nursing Professional Development.
Hence, the so called "false" nursing shortage. Nurses that should be retiring just aren't retiring, which is one of the reasons why new nurses of all ages can't find a job (notice I said one of the reasons, not the ONLY or MAJOR reason).
i sincerely hope that you aren't using age to measure when someone should retire. As long as one is able to physically handle the job requirements and has the mental capacity to do the job competently, the only person who should decide when they retire is themselves. I work with people who retire 10 years early because they can afford to do so and wish to do so, and I work with some who are old enough to retire but don't want to because they want to work and don't know what to do with themselves all day if they would retire (and in some cases, need to as the retirement fund disappeared when the economy tanked).
I don't see the big deal or why people get offended.
No one would want everyone flocking into their field driving up supply and lowering demand which ultimately lowers the pay, benefits, and the employment environment.
If TPTB changed the minimum entry requirements to BSN you would definitely see a change. I highly doubt you would see the following at the same rate, if the change was implemented...
Drop outs from other majors
career changers
non traditional students
NO offense to anyone but you don't see a high rate from the above groups entering medical school, PTschools, or any other field that requires a lengthier pre-entry time investment.The fact is the 2yr entry requirement will continue to attract a lot of students. The flexibility, and abundance of nursing schools are also contributing factors.
however I don't think they will change it to a BSN....the Community Colleges and Profiteering institutions would definitely fight against it.
Also in my area BSNs don't make that much more than ADNs....
If TPTB changed the minimum entry requirements to BSN you would definitely see a change.
however I don't think they will change it to a BSN....the Community Colleges and Profiteering institutions would definitely fight against it.
Also in my area BSNs don't make that much more than ADNs....
I don't think its the CCs that are making the big difference. I could be wrong but at least anecdotally it seems there are far more second degree people who already have a useless bachelors coming into nursing, thinking right out of the gate they are advanced practitioners and complaining about having $100,000 in school loan debt.
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
Hence, the so called "false" nursing shortage. Nurses that should be retiring just aren't retiring, which is one of the reasons why new nurses of all ages can't find a job (notice I said one of the reasons, not the ONLY or MAJOR reason).
Umm the only ones who should decide when they "should" retire are the nurses themselves. Not everyone continues to work due to being economically strapped. I know a lot of older nurses who do it because, well they want to. And they should be able to. I knew a nurse over 80 who was still working med-surg and keeping up just fine. My own auntie is in her upper 70s and works because it gives her purpose; financially she is very well-off. It's her "fun money" that allows her to take vacations she otherwise could not afford if retired. And the other nurses use her as a precious resource, as she is one.
Just because a nurse reaches a "certain age" does not mean she or he should be put out to pasture. Sadly, Hospitals and LTC are trying to do just that, however, because they are topped out on their pay scales and "cost too much". It 's criminal. There is so much they can teach us. I myself respect them and try to learn from them whenever I can.
Today's "young-uns" don't have it easy. I know that. Difficult times are not for just the old or young. Each generation has unique challenges. Interestingly, unlike in times past, we have up to 4 generations working side by side in many places. Instead of appreciating and learning from each other, we are like crabs in a bucket, pulling others down to elevate ourselves. Talk about cutting off the nose to spite the face. WE ALL HAVE something to offer.
But the "crusty old bats" should retire when good and ready, not before. It's not on them to make room for anyone else.
Umm the only ones who should decide when they "should" retire are the nurses themselves. Not everyone continues to work due to being economically strapped. I know a lot of older nurses who do it because, well they want to. And they should be able to. I knew a nurse over 80 who was still working med-surg and keeping up just fine. My own auntie is in her upper 70s and works because it gives her purpose; financially she is very well-off. It's her "fun money" that allows her to take vacations she otherwise could not afford if retired. And the other nurses use her as a precious resource, as she is one.
Just because a nurse reaches a "certain age" does not mean she or he should be put out to pasture. Sadly, Hospitals and LTC are trying to do just that, however, because they are topped out on their pay scales and "cost too much". It 's criminal. There is so much they can teach us. I myself respect them and try to learn from them whenever I can.
Today's "young-uns" don't have it easy. I know that. Difficult times are not for just the old or young. Each generation has unique challenges. Interestingly, unlike in times past, we have up to 4 generations working side by side in many places. Instead of appreciating and learning from each other, we are like crabs in a bucket, pulling others down to elevate ourselves. Talk about cutting off the nose to spite the face. WE ALL HAVE something to offer.
But the "crusty old bats" should retire when good and ready, not before. It's not on them to make room for anyone else.
Why is everyone reading so deep into @ newboys statements?
Do older people not usually retire? Wasn't the whole nursing shortage projected on older nurses retiring? (Amongst other things)
people that should have= those that usually do= those that were projected to retire...
this isnt a personal opinion...this a common social phenomenon that older people in all fields usually retire...
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
Older people retire when good and ready in the perfect world. My dad retired young, still in his 50s. His father, my grandfather, retired when he died, at 90. (neither man was a nurse by the way)
I have read several posts that infer the "old bats" should retire already, to make room for the poor youngs ones lining up for work.
The "shortage" is a fallacy. It's not a truth. There are pockets of shortage, for sure. But across the board, there are many more nurses than jobs for those who want them. I don't like seeing anyone blame older nurses for the plight of those unable to find work. It's not on them; it's the hospitals and other places that post positions that really won't be filled, to save money. It's the pop-up schools that graduate people with unrealistic expectations of the availability of work when they graduate. Just in my 18 years in nursing, I have seen a HUGE influx of new programs at places I never heard of. Especially in the 2000s, they have been literally cranking out scads of new grads with little hope of finding employment for months, or longer.
And here is another thing: A lot of the older nurses would LOVE to have the help rather than work short, through lunch breaks and the like. Hospitals, in particular do anything they can to save a buck, including dangerous staffing ratios.
ANYHOOOO whether you believe there is a "shortage"---- be it of nurses, or jobs....
........People, ideally, "should" retire when they decide it's right for them not at an arbitrarily-decided age.
It is kinda weird to think of a NP without hospital experience. I would never expect my physician to not have acute care experience, outside of mental health or podiatry or some such field.
Podiatrists are not physicians they have a doctorate in podiatry.
Older people retire when good and ready in the perfect world. My dad retired young, still in his 50s. His father, my grandfather, retired when he died, at 90. (neither man was a nurse by the way)
I have read several posts that infer the "old bats" should retire already, to make room for the poor youngs ones lining up for work.
The "shortage" is a fallacy. It's not a truth. There are pockets of shortage, for sure. But across the board, there are many more nurses than jobs for those who want them. I don't like seeing anyone blame older nurses for the plight of those unable to find work. It's not on them; it's the hospitals and other places that post positions that really won't be filled, to save money. It's the pop-up schools that graduate people with unrealistic expectations of the availability of work when they graduate. Just in my 18 years in nursing, I have seen a HUGE influx of new programs at places I never heard of. Especially in the 2000s, they have been literally cranking out scads of new grads with little hope of finding employment for months, or longer.
And here is another thing: A lot of the older nurses would LOVE to have the help rather than work short, through lunch breaks and the like. Hospitals, in particular do anything they can to save a buck, including dangerous staffing ratios.
ANYHOOOO whether you believe there is a "shortage"---- be it of nurses, or jobs....
........People, ideally, "should" retire when they decide it's right for them not at an arbitrarily-decided age.
That is all some are trying to say here.
No one is "blaming" anyone. The fact is 1+1 equals two and that is true regardless of personal feelings. If there is no change in the quantity of X...and X is constantly being added...a surplus of X is inevitable.
This is not an opinion rather simple mathematics/logic/economics.
Also, I we need to be honest here. Most people who are financially able to retire,do so..and those who are not continue to work...retirement is usually A well welcomed event. And if older people don't "retire" they usually take on different roles: consultants, educators, or work part-time.
For whatever reason that they continue to work (X remains the same) and potential newcomers don't get the memo then a surplus is likely to occur..
should older nurses be be forced to leave? NO, if they can still safely practice they should stay..I think the Healthcare field needs the wisdom and the experience that older nurses provide..but, that doesn't negate the fact that older people usually retire..and workforce retirement is used to project future openings.
Are older nurses solely at fault? ..No
But if we are going to be logical about this, we have to look at people not retiring when they were projected to do so.
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
Well, the way I see it:
we need to look at the huge, uncontrolled influx of new graduate nurses with unfairly false expectations of finding a job any time soon in their area.....
or hospitals firing or laying off nurses, only to bring in cheaper labor from out of the country......
Hospitals and other places hiring unlicensed staff to do tasks that should only be performed by licensed nurses.........
*and* finally, we need to look at employers who deliberately short-staff their units, while posting job openings that magically never really pan out, as well.
THAT is what we need to be looking at, cause those situations are unethical. Nurses working beyond an imagined "shelf life" are not unethical.
Besides, people are working longer all over. Not just nursing. I see baggers at my grocery store who are clearly in their 70s and 80s....as well as retirement-age folks working at fast food places or hosting at restaurants, places that used to hire teens (who now can't find work). People are living longer and can't afford to retire, OR they don't want to. In all sectors of society here in our country, older people are working longer and doing well at it.
If they are not retiring when projected to, then we need to re-evaluate our projections
To sum it up, prospective nursing students need to more clearly understand the realities of the job market they are trying to enter, and either plan to be very patient and persistent in seeking work, or look elsewhere if when they do understand, that nursing may well not meet their expectations or needs for rapid or satisfying employment.
I can't think of many other fields where I have seen people in their 70s still slogging along.
Jules A, MSN
8,864 Posts
So just curious what criteria would you use to decide which nurses "should" be retiring?
I have my personal yard stick which includes but is not limited to when I'm not longer agile enough to bob and weave effectively to avoid contact with a hitting, kicking, spitting adolescent as well as when I start waivering in my willingness to immediately shut down the relentless browbeating for benzos, opiates and stimulants from my cluster b crowd.