People don't leave their jobs, they leave their manager...

pisces59 · May 6, 2006

It is sad.........and the hard part is there are loads of opportunity out there for nurses. Hospitals are just one and they aren't doing what is necessary to keep staff....

mad1 · May 7, 2006

:) I have been a nurse in Canada for a few years, not long compared to some of you veterans out there, but already i feel like leaving my unit because of a dumb manager who does not care about our needs (shoddy equipment or lack thereof), etc. , but it's also because some of the families are just so demanding , rude, disrespectful and unrealistic. They think their loved one is the only patient I have. Sometimes the LPN and I have 12 patients! These families hunt ya down in the hallways and demand things that they could even do for their loved one (fetch H2O, get them juice out of fridge and on and on....) and they glare at ya for not giving pain medication (when it's NOT yet due) , then give ya flack when they're drowsy, insinuating you're"drugging" them......translation:overdosing. If we could get a manager who actually gave a .... and if nosey , meddling family members stayed home or kept their opinions to themselves, there would be a lot more happy nurses! :monkeydance:

RN34TX · May 7, 2006

she was saying nurse's were a dime a dozen....

That is so funny.

On the other hand, I've always said that nursing jobs are a dime a dozen.

And they are.

The only nursing job I've ever truely felt lucky to get was a recovery room position.

ICU and med/surg jobs are most definitely a dime a dozen...and so are some of the managers who run them who seem to get replaced so frequently whenever something goes wrong.

jrlpn · May 7, 2006

Its obvious that you are not from this planet or at least oriented to reality. But when you and others that are good workers and able to get the job done,no matter how hectic it is and keeping your patients free from the true activity of that unit, maybe not with a plastic smile that any one could see its fake

jrlpn · May 7, 2006

continued, and your unit manager knows you are not happy with the clickish #### going on and writes you up and others to keep you from leaving the unit, then stops you from working on a better unit under the same umbrella, then I guess you need to laugh your head off in the fanansty pail, then my sister I guess it would be funny to YOU..................

RN34TX · May 7, 2006

Its obvious that you are not from this planet or at least oriented to reality. But when you and others that are good workers and able to get the job done,no matter how hectic it is and keeping your patients free from the true activity of that unit, maybe not with a plastic smile that any one could see its fake

Who are you addressing your comments to?

I hope it's not me because I'm not getting anything about where you are coming from.

Who are you responding to?

DusktilDawn · May 7, 2006

That is so funny.
On the other hand, I've always said that nursing jobs are a dime a dozen.
And they are.
The only nursing job I've ever truely felt lucky to get was a recovery room position.
ICU and med/surg jobs are most definitely a dime a dozen...and so are some of the managers who run them who seem to get replaced so frequently whenever something goes wrong.

The state I work in, that is true. There are no shortage of jobs available, so yes, nursing jobs where I'm at are a dime a dozen. I think we are all in agreement that good nurses are not a dime a dozen (I do realize that was not what you were implying/saying:) ).

elvispresley · May 7, 2006

Thanks for presenting the "other side" of difficulties faced by nurse managers. Many of our staff forget we have been in the very shoes they occupy, and the concerned managers never forget how difficult to walk in those shoes some days. Thanks for the support, whomever you are.

It's certainly hard to disagree with the idea that job satisfaction is STRONGLY related the characteristics/skills of the manager -- and I don't disagree with that.
But ....
At what point does blaming the nurse who is trying his/her best to manage under bad conditions become simply another form of nurse-on-nurse violence?
While there are lots of bad managers out there ... there are also lots of good managers being blamed for things they have little control of. We have to be careful about too simplistic in a "blame the manager" approach. Real life is often more complicated that it first appears on the surface.
llg

Home Health Columnist / Guide · May 7, 2006

the purpose of this thread is to look at reasons staff leave a facilty and what can be done to improve recruitment and retention. please use our other forums for venting.

a. look carefully at applicants. just because your desperate to fill a vacancy due to retirement/out of state relocation, hiring the next applicant with rn/lpn after their name may not pay off.

carefully weigh the virtues of a potential hire during the earliest possible stages to save time and money down the road. waiting until you’ve trained a new recruit to discover he isn’t the right fit is several steps too late.

organizations should be clear up-front about their compensation model and other policies to minimize surprises, says westfall. “when things don’t appear the way new employees expected, they can become disillusioned,” she says. put all the facts on the table and give candidates a true picture of what life will be like in the organization.

2 years ago i hired an rn who in interview repeatedly made negative references regarding unit she was working on ---coming from facility within our parent organization. she worked for me 1 day, was in er next day, came in 2 days later and then worked for 3 weeks. presented me with a doctor note stating need for gyn surgery following week. expectation was would be off one month as returning to desk job.. at 6 week mark, no message from employee. contacted her + was informed be back in 2 more weeks. received letter in mail from florida location bad mouthing her experience in my office...when i had done nothing but accommidate her needs.

this year another employee from same facility applied for posiiton in my referral office. they also spoke disparingly of facility & patients families "interrupting her work" as discharge planner. being interrupted is very much a part of discharge planning/referral routine: something she did not accept as part of practice setting. i later took referral from her: not prepared with info i needed, hadn't looked at chart, unaware which services patient neede. came across as disorganized /burnt out professional (knowing she'd been employeed their 2 years). staff reported every referral call from her not prepared with info we needed. they did not get a job offer.

b. look carefully at other departments. turnover has been high at one of our branches in past year. helping to look at issue i discovered volume demands far exceeded staff ability to see cases/day and we unable to "case manage" patients. they were always being pulled in different directions, seing patients unfamilar with, having unresolved calls to docs nesxt day and could not get a rhythm/ routine down. i've suggested to sr management that we limit accepting business to our own facilities for three months to stop the employee turnover and allow new staff time for orientation. will see if mgmt listens. have a feeling if they don't, we will in short time turn down our own hospitals....never good for business.

c. horse first, then cart

differentiating your organization from the competition can be crucial to keeping good employees....
still, while making employees’ home life easier is a plus, hospitals should start by concentrating on employees’ time at work. personal features can help a hospital stand out, but they’re not solutions, warns abrams. “services become important when the fundamentals are already being taken care of.”

when was last time employee satisfaction survey administered?

were results listened too? while new units being developed, is someone looking at need for top to bottom cleaning of older ones along with fresh paint job and replacing worn minor equipment satff deal with daily? frustraing to have only one working electric thermometer or bp cuff/dynamap .

any problems ordering and receiving supplies in department? they are time wasters that if not solved will add to daily stress of unit and cause staff to quit out of sheer frustration.

when i started, previous manager had only one incoming and one out going fax machines aong with network printer. now we have 2 incoming and 2 outgoing fax machines. insurance verification staff have own printers. orders are to change fax ink every 10 days in am instead of wating till copy comes across faded and we need to call referral source to refax forms and spend time waiting for info. cost of one "lost" referral" average = $500.00 profit to organization while cartridge replacement cost is $35.00.

d: give them a boost

although clinicians may be the most costly replacements for hospitals, entry-level turnover expenses can add up, as well, yurdin says. the average cost for exchanging an entry-level worker comes to half that employee’s annual salary. helping entry-level employees develop personally can translate into loyalty,

i always stress our agency's $3,000/yr tuition reimburement plan to new hires and to clerical staff. many nurses have taken advantage to move form as to bsn degrees.

perdiem clerical staff have made great ft hires after being provided additional training and encouragement to try another department too.

also try to get my staff to sign up for 403b retiement account as system will pay after 3 yrs employment, .50 cents for every dollar saved and after 15 years, .60 cents/dollar! some clerical staff are missing out on these benefits if not touted yearly.

high stress on unit: providing pizza for shift, cookies and punch in fancy container, ice cream social even if monies out of own managers pocket still goes long way to saying i care about you and showss you see + are trying to make amends for high volume periods. godd friday is holiday for facility. all departments but mine and field staff are off. since office operated as regular day, facility footed bill for pizza, i supplied sodas + chips and cookies. not a crumb left and many smilies seen that day.

MissPiggy · May 7, 2006

My last NM was too busy playing Martha Stewart and picking out paint shades and fabric swatches for the hospital remodeling project to see what her assistant department manager was up to, which was running off the older nurses. That woman treated us like garbage..........I'd still be there if it weren't for her, but I wouldn't give her the satisfaction of telling her so.
My firm belief is that "them's that can, DO and them's that can't go into management." The only problem is that they are too busy strutting around to see that WE are the professionals, NOT them.

Hellllllo Nurse, BSN, RN · Nov 14, 2007

from healthleaders.com
happy and retained
reducing employee turnover can boost morale--and a hospital's bottom line....
if above statement is true, greater need to support and educate front line managers imho.

great article- i found it ironic coming from hca, though.

i worked in an hca hospital once- worst experience of my career; i have never before or since been so unhappy- turnover was 100% yearly.

however, different facilities owned by the same company can really vary- it all depends on mgmt. so, i agree- nurses leave mgmt/admin, not the actual job, in many cases.

caliotter3 · Nov 14, 2007

I left a place of employment under unfavorable conditions. Part of the problem was that there was a complete turn around in the behavior of the manager who was so pro employee when it suited his purposes and he was in trouble. I will not go into a lengthy discussion of the circumstances. When a horrendous amount of turmoil got under control, so to speak, one of the management team resigned. She probably, as much as anything else, had put up with the other manager for as long as she could stand him. He spoke a good tune when he wanted the support of the rank and file. Once his own job was more secure, he became surly and quickly developed a bad reputation for going back on his word and being unpleasant.

This manager, who I have to put down on job applications, made the statement that he would give me positive support in finding new employment. He did a complete 360 degree turn and badmouthed me. Not man enough to tell me to my face, or in a phone call, or in a letter, that he no longer was interested in providing me with a positive reference. You know, after all these decades in the work force, I really would like to know what I did to this man. I really would.