Pct refused delegation

Nurses General Nursing

Published

A couple weeks back I was caring for a very high maintenance patient with a new colostomy. I had taken care of the patient three nights in a row. On the third night when the patient was more stable physically I asked our PCT to empty the patient's colostomy before the end of her shift at 11PM. She refused. She stated that it was not within her scope of practice. I let her know that other PCTs empty them and she rebutted that if it came off she couldn't put it back on. Because ultimately I am responsible, I emptied the costostomy. At our monthly night nurse unit meeting I asked if it was outside the scope if practice for PCT's. I was told it wasn't and it was taken down in our meeting minutes so it could be clarified later. The notes are then turned into our manager. I don't think any names were used, but I'm sure if the senerio was mentioned infront of the PCT she would recognize the situation as the one shared between us.

Friday my manager called me on the phone and asked me about the situation. She said, "Deana (name changed) says you won't change patients or empty colostomies because it makes you vomit." Admittedly poop is my weakness. Some people are grossed out by sputum or vomit. I went to school who was grossed out by eye drops. Poop is hard for me. Ocassionly, I do dry heave. I try to do everything I can to be discreet about it, I even carry a small bottle of body spray in my pocket for super Code Brown situations however it does happen that I dry heave. I have never, however, vomited because of it and I most certainly don't clean up my patients to avoid it! Many times this PCT has helped me clean patients in the 3 years I've been at this position.

I'm really bothered by this. I would like to confront the PCT in the presence of our manager just do the record can be set straight. I don't know if it will just start all this to snowball. Should I just leave it alone. Or should I schedule a meeting.

I'm concern about here accusation and feel I must do something.

Specializes in Case Manager.

Being on the other side of the fence, I can see how one might refuse a delegation.

Imagine having anywhere from 3-6 nurses telling what to do for 12 hours and instead of having a ratio of 2-6:1 it's anywhere from 15-30:1! That's 30 people I have to answer call lights for, get to the bathroom, change, bathe, replace ECG leads, empty foleys for, do BG's for every 6 hours. The point is, we're not gonna be able to do everything everyone asks all the time, or on time without adequate staffing or help. The nurses sometimes fail to realize that I'm only ONE person and can only do so much.

As a final year nursing student and a PCT, I understand both sides of the coin and when the other aides ***** at me about the nurses, I can only agree so much. The RN DOES have a lot of work to do on those 4 patients, but the work is a lot more mental than physical (charting, orders, labs, etc...). I understand WHY the RN's are away from the beside so much. Meanwhile, the PCT's job is almost entirely task oriented. Also, if you see that I'm busy with something, don't walk into the room see a dirty patient and say "oh can you go change/bathe him?" You were JUST in there!!! It's one of the motivating factors for me to get my RN. "I'd rather do more mental work than physical work."

Also, I follow the general flow of the unit. If everyone's busting their butts off, best believe I'm busting mine too. But if I see nurses sitting down on their phones, on FB, online shopping etc... then guess who's taking it a little easier. It may be ethically wrong but hey.

I also never refuse to do anything (if it's in my scope of practice), but I am firm in telling someone that it will get done when I get my other tasks done, prioritizing the most important of course. And being a nursing student, the know that I know more things in the RN scope of practice than a regular PCT/CNA which sometimes makes me have even more responsibility.

Specializes in PACU,Trauma ICU,CVICU,Med-Surg,EENT.

@Lilaclover - I'd suggest documenting on this care worker.If she hates her job so much that her response to toileting a pt or two is to try to ignore them, and then when pushed to do it, groans audibly- her behind-the-scenes care is likely to be atrocious. She needs an attitude adjustment...or a new job.

The PCT has worked on our unit for several years and on our sister unit before that. Her know how is not in question.

Has she had actual experience emptying them is the question, not how long or where she's worked. You can miss lots of experiences - I have never passed an NG tube in more than 3 decades of Nursing or clipped anyone's nails, including mine. Freaks me out. Go figure.

Make sure she actually knows how to empty th darned thing and how to teach the pt about emptying it so she can do it alone when she leaves your place. Teach about how to re-apply the items and get a good fit and check the skin and control odor, too.

Maybe she just needs good teaching. If she also has a problem with poop, you guys willl have to work something out. But I'd want to hear why she said I had refused to do it. That's another and bigger problem, this false accusation.

Being on the other side of the fence, I can see how one might refuse a delegation.

Imagine having anywhere from 3-6 nurses telling what to do for 12 hours and instead of having a ratio of 2-6:1 it's anywhere from 15-30:1! That's 30 people I have to answer call lights for, get to the bathroom, change, bathe, replace ECG leads, empty foleys for, do BG's for every 6 hours. The point is, we're not gonna be able to do everything everyone asks all the time, or on time without adequate staffing or help. The nurses sometimes fail to realize that I'm only ONE person and can only do so much.

As a final year nursing student and a PCT, I understand both sides of the coin and when the other aides ***** at me about the nurses, I can only agree so much. The RN DOES have a lot of work to do on those 4 patients, but the work is a lot more mental than physical (charting, orders, labs, etc...). I understand WHY the RN's are away from the beside so much. Meanwhile, the PCT's job is almost entirely task oriented. Also, if you see that I'm busy with something, don't walk into the room see a dirty patient and say "oh can you go change/bathe him?" You were JUST in there!!! It's one of the motivating factors for me to get my RN. "I'd rather do more mental work than physical work."

Also, I follow the general flow of the unit. If everyone's busting their butts off, best believe I'm busting mine too. But if I see nurses sitting down on their phones, on FB, online shopping etc... then guess who's taking it a little easier. It may be ethically wrong but hey.

I also never refuse to do anything (if it's in my scope of practice), but I am firm in telling someone that it will get done when I get my other tasks done, prioritizing the most important of course. And being a nursing student, the know that I know more things in the RN scope of practice than a regular PCT/CNA which sometimes makes me have even more responsibility.

I am just amazed that a nurse would do all that shopping, Facebooking, etc. in plain view of others, and it's not even their break. Are you sure about this? How long do they do it for? How often? Where?

Manate111- it sound like you are getting endocrinated into the world of dirty unit politics- Where the aise changes the story to make you look likethe bad guy- shame on you for making that aide do her job for her hourly wage.

I have more than one aide tell me to do it because I was paid more than them, I have had aides and LPN's change their story around for what ever reason suits their hierarical purpose- they just don't feel like they want to do it. I've had an aide tell me tell me at the end of the shift- she left me a foley bag to empty as she left out the door on time, I was left to do all the charts( she couldn't by law) and that foley( which she can by law). Next time I worked with her I emptied all the foleys and asked her Is there anything else you need me to do for you?? She knew I was being a smart a**, was putting her down to the level of not being able to do her job and it was not ment to be nice or helpful. I have also had a patient with their call light on, aide ignoring, my having to ask- can you give this IV lopressor while I answer the call light? her response was"Oh, were not allowed to give that!!" I responded "MY point exactly!!" I needed a stat EKG done last week- the aide sat there and continued to do her homework. I stood there asked again, and continued to stand there as she continued her homework- I asked her- Is the homework almost done because this guy really needs this EKG. Now if these aides had half the knowledge base they give airs about themselves they do- wouldn't they recognize the urgency of these requests. Their poor work ethics give them away. As for the changing of the story-maybe confronting her would be the best thing- but them she may just make your life more miserable and tell a bigger lie, like you were mean and abusive to her, which would get you in more trouble. If you say something to her infront of witnesses like- "in the interest of good customer satisfaction....answer light promptly" she could come back and say you embarassed her infront of a group, Or you could bring it up at you night nurse meeting as a generic situation, give the proposed corrective action - "in the interest of good....... we need to answer lights promptly so we don't increase our patient complaints on OUR shift" How long have the NM and this aide been working together. Does this NM backup and support her/his nurses? It's a tough job and it's not the patient care that's tough.

Hold a meeting with your staff who are students. Make it clear that no schoolbooks, laptops, etc.can be on the ward. Period. Explain why (past abuses, ignorning patients in order to study, nurses having to hunt down and hound aides to stop studying and get to work). Let your boss know that you are wanting to institute this and make sure she's on your side first. If boss agrees, done deal. If not, can't pull if off probably. Try to transfer where there are no students.

Specializes in Critical Care.
I'm suprised by her claim of the scope of her practice. In my training as a PCT, we trained for every delegatable, unlicensed duty, period. I thought the training was universal. It seems to me that this tech just didn't want to do it, (I must say it is one of the most unpleasant of tasks), & when questioned used your revulsion as an excuse.

I really don't see how your discomfort can be used since she said she didn't possess the skill set. Your manager should've told her that regardless of your motives, it's still a delegatable task and if she needed a retraining session, she'll see to it that she gets it @ her own expense. Period.

I like the previous posters idea of documenting the incident and response to it, other than that I don't know what you could do. I just felt the need to give a fellow PCT perspective.

Actually, PCT training is NOT universal and can vary greatly not only from facility to facility but state to state as well.

Also, I follow the general flow of the unit. If everyone's busting their butts off, best believe I'm busting mine too. But if I see nurses sitting down on their phones, on FB, online shopping etc... then guess who's taking it a little easier. It may be ethically wrong but hey.

that's interesting, nurses having the time or audacity to do this publicly...

unless, they were on break, or perhaps on 11-7, when there's 'usually' 1-2 hours of down time.

i mean seriously, i can promise you this is not representative of the majority.

there are bad apples in every profession.

i'm disappointed that you'd follow suit re goofing off.

i can only hope you'll feel a bit more professional and proud, once you graduate from school.

best of everything.

leslie

Specializes in Medical Surgical Orthopedic.

As a final year nursing student and a PCT, I understand both sides of the coin and when the other aides ***** at me about the nurses, I can only agree so much. The RN DOES have a lot of work to do on those 4 patients, but the work is a lot more mental than physical (charting, orders, labs, etc...). I understand WHY the RN's are away from the beside so much. Meanwhile, the PCT's job is almost entirely task oriented. Also, if you see that I'm busy with something, don't walk into the room see a dirty patient and say "oh can you go change/bathe him?" You were JUST in there!!!

I don't think you understand as much as you think you do. :uhoh3: Nursing student and working nurse are worlds away from each other.

Nurses actually have many more tasks to complete than CNAs do. They may be physically easier, but they are actual tasks that have to be completed. When your nurse asks you to change someone while you're helping someone else, he/she doesn't expect you to drop that patient on the floor and come running- just to add it to your mental list and get it done. And the fact that the nurse was "just in there" doesn't matter - there are more important tasks that he/she must focus on completing.

I can't say, "Oh! Sorry I missed that critical potassium and it didn't get covered, but four people needed to be changed at the same time so I didn't get to look at my labs."

or, "I know I should have given that PRN blood pressure med for that 200/102 blood pressure two hours earlier, but I was busy bathing room 403 and changing the linens in room 404 and Mrs. Smith wet her diaper again and the CNA was busy. I didn't have a chance to review my midnight vitals until 2AM."

I could easily stay busy all night just bouncing from room to room and completing tasks directly in front of me, but instead I have to redirect myself to focus on the more critical things. If I don't focus on those higher level tasks, they don't get done by anyone.

Specializes in FNP.
You should ask your manager why this matters at all. You delegated a task, regardless of the reason, and the pct refused. How can this possibly be tolerated? Would your manager find it acceptable if you refused to do a task given by a doctor because you felt the reason was it made him squeamish? I can't believe your manager is even entertaining that excuse.

Yup. Right here.

But I am biased b/c I don't care for the whole ostomy gig either. If I had had the luxury of delegating such a task, I certainly would have! Stand up for yourself and set the PCT, and the record, straight. Good luck.

Specializes in FNP.
I don't think you understand as much as you think you do. :uhoh3: Nursing student and working nurse are worlds away from each other.

Nurses actually have many more tasks to complete than CNAs do. They may be physically easier, but they are actual tasks that have to be completed. When your nurse asks you to change someone while you're helping someone else, he/she doesn't expect you to drop that patient on the floor and come running- just to add it to your mental list and get it done. And the fact that the nurse was "just in there" doesn't matter - there are more important tasks that he/she must focus on completing.

I can't say, "Oh! Sorry I missed that critical potassium and it didn't get covered, but four people needed to be changed at the same time so I didn't get to look at my labs."

or, "I know I should have given that PRN blood pressure med for that 200/102 blood pressure two hours earlier, but I was busy bathing room 403 and changing the linens in room 404 and Mrs. Smith wet her diaper again and the CNA was busy. I didn't have a chance to review my midnight vitals until 2AM."

I could easily stay busy all night just bouncing from room to room and completing tasks directly in front of me, but instead I have to redirect myself to focus on the more critical things. If I don't focus on those higher level tasks, they don't get done by anyone.

Excellent points all. We had to fire a nurse who was stuck in CNA think and never did catch on to the change in her scope and responsibilities. She had the cleanest patients and neatest beds in the unit to be sure, but missed the forest for the trees more often than not. She was indignant when we sacked her, because she was "the hardest working one here!" Duh.

I am just amazed that a nurse would do all that shopping, Facebooking, etc. in plain view of others, and it's not even their break. Are you sure about this? How long do they do it for? How often? Where?

Employers can check what you have been doing, you know...

Specializes in Case Manager.
I don't think you understand as much as you think you do. :uhoh3: Nursing student and working nurse are worlds away from each other.

Nurses actually have many more tasks to complete than CNAs do. They may be physically easier, but they are actual tasks that have to be completed. When your nurse asks you to change someone while you're helping someone else, he/she doesn't expect you to drop that patient on the floor and come running- just to add it to your mental list and get it done. And the fact that the nurse was "just in there" doesn't matter - there are more important tasks that he/she must focus on completing.

I can't say, "Oh! Sorry I missed that critical potassium and it didn't get covered, but four people needed to be changed at the same time so I didn't get to look at my labs."

or, "I know I should have given that PRN blood pressure med for that 200/102 blood pressure two hours earlier, but I was busy bathing room 403 and changing the linens in room 404 and Mrs. Smith wet her diaper again and the CNA was busy. I didn't have a chance to review my midnight vitals until 2AM."

I could easily stay busy all night just bouncing from room to room and completing tasks directly in front of me, but instead I have to redirect myself to focus on the more critical things. If I don't focus on those higher level tasks, they don't get done by anyone.

I pointed this point out in my post. Albeit, I didn't go in depth as you did.

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