Patients son who is a MD violating HIPPA & is just a jerk!

[Manatee111]

I am currently working a nursing home. The other night 2 of the aides came to a patient's room where I was caring for a patient and asked to speak to me. There was a family member of a patiet (, but not my patient) standing at the medication cart going through the MAR. The aide said he'd told her he was the patient's son and a physician so it was ok. We all know it isn't "ok". So I went over and asked if he had questions regarding his mother medication and I told him in order to answer them I'd have to check the MAR. He stepped back and I checked the MAR and answered his questions. I explained to him that if he had any further questions that he should ask the nurse because it is a violation of HIPPA and the rights of the other patients for him to be going through the the MAR. The patient and her family then went for a walk through the building. Later, when no other staff or his family membesr were around the man came up to me at my med. cart and put his face close to mine and said, "You'd better never speak to me like that again. I am a physician and that is my mother. I will look if I want. It is my right!" Then he quickly walked off. Now I've only been a nurse for a few months so I had no "Come backs", but the part that makes me mad is I told my supervisor and nothing was done. No type of report. No discussion with the family. I would be horribly angry if I'd planned working there long term, but I just got my RN and my two week notice is already in and thankfully since the supervisor obviously doesn't think that her staff deserves to be respected. I think that sometimes nursing homes are too concerned with customer service and making families happy than with doing whats right!

[Nacki, MSN, NP]

The OP stated he said he was a physician.

I assure you that there are not these wild hordes of 'just PhDs' running around in healthcare facilities calling themselves Dr, so they can trip the nurses up into violating HIPAA, etc. PhD is not below MD in education, BTW.

Don't get offended. Someone can have a PhD in English or whatever. I understand its not below a MD, its just not medical all the time. No one said there were hordes of "just PhD's" anyways. I apologize I misread the physician part. In some instances there is a difference between Dr. and physician though, if they are sure he said physician and not Dr.then my mistake. Just for the OP's information since they did state they were new to the field. BTW.

[Runman1914, MSN, RN]

Keep your guard up with this MD. "you better not speak to me like that again" sounds like a threat to me.

[pagandeva2000, LPN]

the guy was a jerk, plain and simple. if he is a physician, then, he should be aware of hospital protocols and even if he had carte blanche to look through these things in the past, he was not familiar with you!!

in fact, he should have been appreciative of the fact that there are employees looking after the best interest of his loved one. don't get me started...

[woody62, RN]

When I was a patient in a facility, 2006, the med cart, along with the MAR book was taken into our rooms. But aside from this, unless he is her appointed patient care representative, and then only if she is incompetent, he may inquire as to her medications. He may not thumb through an MAR book looking at everyone's records. And he may not inquire, unless his mother has given permission. I was between life and death for all most two weeks and my daughter was my legally appointed health care proxy. She had a right to know everything about me, my care, my medications, everything. She was more concerned about my state from shift to shift, then she was knowing everything.

In some long term care facilities, administration is more concerned about the patients and families who are aware of their rights, not so much those that are not, unless they have a health care proxy. Prior to leaving, it might be important that you point this out to them. And point out that if another family member, from a different family, sees someone thumbing through any patient records, they might not only find themselves under investigation by a state agency but a family's attorney plus a lawsuit.

Woody:twocents:

[nickola]

The fact that he's a physician carries no weight as to whether or not he has the "right" to look at his mother's records- so for him to say he was a "PHYSICIAN" does not give him the right to look at his mother's records. If he's her POA, why not mention that? Even so, he went about it like a jerk. I don't know how it is in a NH, but where I work even when a person is the POA they still don't have the "right" to just walk in and pull records @ their whim, they ask for so & so's records and usually we call the supervisor to come to the floor & she verifies that he IS indeed the POA. His arrogant threatening statement to you is infuriating!!-- Also the fact that management doesn't back you up! It sounds like a good place to be leaving. :angryfire

[bethin]

I had something like this happen to me recently. We had an elderly pt whose son was on the hospital board and worked as a pharmacist (but not at the hospital). I was sitting at the desk one day alone, covering for the UC while she got a bite to eat. In walked this man, no ID badge, no lab coat, etc. I politely inquired who he was, thinking he was a new MD as I knew we had gotten a new batch. He told me who he was, sat down with his father's chart in front of a computer that had pt info on it. Granted, that chart should not have been pulled up on the computer but the dr who was sitting there was running back and forth. This son moved the other MD's briefcase, pt files, PDA and other stuff out of the way to look at his father's chart. I told him that he cannot just come into the nurse's station, sit down and read this chart. If he was POA, I would gladly give him the opportunity to look through the chart provided it was not at the nurse's station where pt info freely flows. He told me that "all the others let me do it". Sheesh, what is he, 5? I told my mom that when I was a kid. Anyway, I told him I'm not other people and I'm not going to face jail time, fines, losing my job, etc for allowing him to do this.

I later overheard him tell his father that his roommate was dying of cancer when the roommate didn't even know he had cancer!!!

I found out later he kept doing it. I reported it, but I know nothing will come of it: he's on the board, he gives money to the hospital, he's well known in the community, and it's all about who you know and whose butt you kiss.

[HeartsOpenWide, RN]

Obviously your facility is not doing anything about it. I would report it myself...and mention that your facility was notified and did nothing about it...good thing you are quiting, what a horrible place

[nickola]

One time we had a staff physician who was a patient on my floor. He would get up (despite being on meds, IVs, etc.) and pull his chart & write his own orders. Did he ever get in trouble? Heck no, his doc just co-signed everything he wrote!!

[Jolie, BSN]

Later, when no other staff or his family membesr were around the man came up to me at my med. cart and put his face close to mine and said, "You'd better never speak to me like that again. I am a physician and that is my mother. I will look if I want. It is my right!" Then he quickly walked off. Now I've only been a nurse for a few months so I had no "Come backs", but the part that makes me mad is I told my supervisor and nothing was done.

I don't care if he is the Pope. If he wants to view his mother's medical records, and if he has the legal standing to do so, he still must follow institution policy, which ususally involves sitting down at a time that is mutually convenient with the family member and staff, and reading the records in the presence of a staff member.

I would have said one of two things, 1.) Are you threatening me? If he answered, "Yes", I would have asked him to repeat his threat for my co-workers to hear, so that I would have witnesses for the police report. or 2.) I would have said, "Since you are a physician, you certainly are aware of the conditions under which you may view your mother's medical record. I'll make your request known to my supervisor, and she will schedule an appointment with you."

[Vito Andolini]

if he was/is the poa, then hipaa wouldn't apply.

if he's not, then you were 100% correct and with time, will learn to stand your ground.

best of everything.

leslie

HIPAA applies because, presumably, other patients' MARS were in there, too. Also, just common courtesy demands that this man, who apparently is under stress and was so rude and threatening to the OP, introduce himself to the OP and ask politely to see his Mom's MaRS and produce the required verification that he is really what and who he says he is and is entitled to look at Mom's MARS.

Easy cure - just don't leave the med book out.

[Vito Andolini]

I've had famliy members and friends call me and tell me they are MD's in order to get info. I always ask what service they are with...I've gotten dentists to dermatologists asking about the pts brain tumor! My point is, he may not even be a MD, just someone with a Phd saying he was a Dr. On the other hand, being a Dr. he should ask his mothers doctor for information, since he had to throw that out there. I don't think it is rightfor him to look through the chart on his own accord though. Being a patient you can look through your own chart but you still need to ask and be monitored. What if he pulled things out the chart or altered documents? He needs to ask for permission instead of taking it upon his self to flip through the MAR book.

In some states, it is illegal for a physician to treat his own family member.

Next thing you know, this dude will be writing orders for Mom. Naturally, he won't have privileges at your facility.

I've seen that happen and Admin did nothing about it and it used to drive us all crazy because we'd get contradictory orders from the related doctor than from the MD of record. So aggravating to have to call the MD of record to discuss the orders this relative doctor was writing and we felt totally adrift and were sooooooo glad when the patient finally went home. A few years later, I saw where the daughter of this patient was running for a political office. It felt soooooo goood to not vote for her. She had such an attitude of entitlement. I guess it's hard to behave like a have-not when, all your life, you've been a have.

[CHATSDALE]

1] he should have identified himself so that you could look on chart to determine if he is the poa

2] he was trying to 'show off' in front of the other family members and it took the wind out of his sails to be called down by a nurse

3]protect your patients rights and protect your license and don't let people like this get under your skin