Patient filed a sexual harassment complaint. HR wants to talk to me

[The0Walrus]

I was working my shift. I got a call from HR and they told me they needed to talk to me in person. I went and the HR rep told me the patient in the psych unit I work in filed a complaint that I groped her breast. I never did that. I told HR that during my shift she kept talking to a few of the nurses about her issues and would start to cry. I was rounding at night and I saw her crying and walked into her room asked her if she needed anything to calm herself down. She starts telling me everything about her issues. I talked to her for a bit and then left. I received a call from HR stating they needed to talk to me in person. I told her my side as she wanted and asked if I needed to get an attorney or if I was going to be fired. She said she didn't know but that she would keep me posted. That is totally unfair I think now I'm worried what can come of this. The hospital doesn't have a union either.

I'm freaking out because I'm thinking of the worst things that can happen. Would anybody get an attorney? Should I start looking for one? I'm freaking out and was hoping I'm not the only one who went through this. What are some of the most serious complaints you've had against you?

[guest1163268]

4 hours ago, Sour Lemon said:

I work psych right now. In this case, "defending himself" in the manner suggested will only make things worse. He needs to come across as someone who strictly follows protocols, not someone who bends the rules when it suits him.

It's not been my experience that management automatically believes the patient. It's actually in the facility's best interest if the nurse they hired is not guilty of inappropriate behavior.

Anyway, I understand your frustration on the OP's behalf. I know that false accusations of this nature have ruined people's lives ...but that's not always the case, and hopefully it won't be the case in this situation.

Which part of legally don't you guys get. He's got to be working and can legally get into her records. Frankly it's something he should have done from the first instance of the accusation when he was charting. Hopefully he learns from the experience if he gets another chance. 

And there's no coming back from this unless it's a patient who has frequently made accusations and is a known problem. 

I say to the OP, defend yourself vigorously and hopefully all turns out well and if not learn carefully about this experience. Move on if it looks like management is being overly aggressive and the gossip mills begins churning. 

[Rose_Queen, BSN, MSN, RN]

3 minutes ago, Curious1997 said:

He's got to be working and can legally get into her records

No, he needs to have a valid reason to be in a chart regardless of on or off the clock. Most likely, he will not be assigned this patient for obvious reasons. Not assigned? No reason to access the chart. 

[JadedCPN, BSN, RN]

2 hours ago, Curious1997 said:

Which part of legally don't you guys get. He's got to be working and can legally get into her records. Frankly it's something he should have done from the first instance of the accusation when he was charting. Hopefully he learns from the experience if he gets another chance. 

And there's no coming back from this unless it's a patient who has frequently made accusations and is a known problem. 

I say to the OP, defend yourself vigorously and hopefully all turns out well and if not learn carefully about this experience. Move on if it looks like management is being overly aggressive and the gossip mills begins churning. 

I am simply stating that if he isn't assigned to work with that patient anymore (which for his own sake I hope he isn't), even if he isn't working that day, he does not have legal access to her charts. And if he accesses her charts when he is at work and he isn't assigned to that patient, he could get in actual trouble for that because it is a HIPAA violation.

I've made it very clear that I think this is a big deal that these accusations were unfairly made against him and hope that it gets resolved quickly so he doesn't have to deal with it anymore. I'm also trying to advise not doing anything to make it worse. Perhaps its a misunderstanding on several of our behalves, but it appears that you're advising him to go into her chart if he's working to access information. Again, if he isn't assigned to her (which I would refuse to be if I were him) then he has no legal access to her chart and could make matters even worse, so your advice as I'm understanding it is ill-advised. 

[Sour Lemon]

2 hours ago, Curious1997 said:

Which part of legally don't you guys get. He's got to be working and can legally get into her records. Frankly it's something he should have done from the first instance of the accusation when he was charting. Hopefully he learns from the experience if he gets another chance. 

And there's no coming back from this unless it's a patient who has frequently made accusations and is a known problem.

My advice to the OP stands ...and I think I'll just quietly back away from the rest of this mess. It's going nowhere fast.

[ORNurseDewd, ADN]

I am assuming you have a member (as do I) and your scenario scares the snot out of me. 
I remember during our OB rotation in nursing school, all of my fellow classmates who likewise had the “misfortune” of external plumbing, were not permitted to see or assess lochia. Instead, each of us was required to stand behind a curtain, while listening to our instructor describe HER assessment. My school just felt it was “inappropriate” for males to care for ante/postpartum patients. 
But let a combative, 90 y/o female pt with dementia take a giant liquid dump in her bed - and we were expected to provide perineal care, change the occupied bed and put her in a clean diaper. Without help. But I digress...

While working in a rehab, roughly  5 years following graduation, a friend - who, likewise had a member - was accused by another coworker, of molesting an 81 y/o dementia patient. Besides “Trevon” being an awesome nurse, he was also 100% gay, and everyone knew it. I mean, there was never any doubt which pond he went fishing in. Still, once the accusation was made, he was immediately suspended from his job and was reported to the board of nursing, which, in turn, suspended his nursing license, pending the outcome of their glacial-speed investigation. In the meantime, of course, he couldn’t get a job and very quickly fell into financial ruin. This whole sordid episode, ultimately ended with Trevon committing suicide.

While I understand the necessity for the actions taken by both the Rehab and Board, what happened to Trevon was a travesty and highlights yet another risk nurses face every time they clock in . It also dramatically changed my own approach in providing nursing care:

1. I do everything possible to avoid being alone with a female patient

2. If circumstances are such that I must be alone with a female patient, I ALWAYS ensure that the door remains open or the curtains are not completely closed

3. If a female patient requires perineal care or cleaning - irrespective of age - I always have a second person (preferably a female) with me to assist

4. Additionally, I’ve spent the last 15 years in leadership positions (manager and department director-level), and NEVER am alone, behind closed doors with a female staff member, for any reason (unless it’s one of my assistant managers) - especially if I’m having a “crucial conversation” or addressing disciplinary issues.

It’s critical that all of us practice defensive nursing - but even more so for those of us who have a member. Sadly, that’s just a fact of life.

 

[The0Walrus, BSN, RN]

In my state (NJ) hospitals need to report these things to the police and DOH. So apparently it was reported. Police haven't made contact me with me in the past few weeks but this giving me a serious level of anxiety.

I spoke to a nursing board attorney and he said since there are no witnesses to it it would be a question if there was any reason to believe the story. The patient was med seeking to all the nurses apparently throughout the entire shift. He said if the police contact me to tell them they can only speak to my attorney, which he said he would get me an attorney he knows. They placed my on administration suspension at this moment which I can appeal. He said since there are no witnesses also and there is no reason to believe their stories and I have no history of sexual misconduct in any situation in history then nothing may happen. I'm hoping that's the case. I've never been in this situation so I have no idea how to respond to this.

I'm thinking of quitting the job because I would rather quit than be terminated for any reason. I feel like it would be better to quit than get terminated, but I'm apprehensive because since I know I didn't do this I feel like it can make me look guilty. I didn't do this, but I've never been in this situation so don't know how to react to this. I have to call back on Tuesday to give my account of the shift..

[The0Walrus, BSN, RN]

27 minutes ago, ORNurseDewd said:

I am assuming you have a member (as do I) and your scenario scares the snot out of me. 
I remember during our OB rotation in nursing school, all of my fellow classmates who likewise had the “misfortune” of external plumbing, were not permitted to see or assess lochia. Instead, each of us was required to stand behind a curtain, while listening to our instructor describe HER assessment. My school just felt it was “inappropriate” for males to care for ante/postpartum patients. 
But let a combative, 90 y/o female pt with dementia take a giant liquid dump in her bed - and we were expected to provide perineal care, change the occupied bed and put her in a clean diaper. Without help. But I digress...

While working in a rehab, roughly  5 years following graduation, a friend - who, likewise had a member - was accused by another coworker, of molesting an 81 y/o dementia patient. Besides “Trevon” being an awesome nurse, he was also 100% gay, and everyone knew it. I mean, there was never any doubt which pond he went fishing in. Still, once the accusation was made, he was immediately suspended from his job and was reported to the board of nursing, which, in turn, suspended his nursing license, pending the outcome of their glacial-speed investigation. In the meantime, of course, he couldn’t get a job and very quickly fell into financial ruin. This whole sordid episode, ultimately ended with Trevon committing suicide.

While I understand the necessity for the actions taken by both the Rehab and Board, what happened to Trevon was a travesty and highlights yet another risk nurses face every time they clock in . It also dramatically changed my own approach in providing nursing care:

1. I do everything possible to avoid being alone with a female patient

2. If circumstances are such that I must be alone with a female patient, I ALWAYS ensure that the door remains open or the curtains are not completely closed

3. If a female patient requires perineal care or cleaning - irrespective of age - I always have a second person (preferably a female) with me to assist

4. Additionally, I’ve spent the last 15 years in leadership positions (manager and department director-level), and NEVER am alone, behind closed doors with a female staff member, for any reason (unless it’s one of my assistant managers) - especially if I’m having a “crucial conversation” or addressing disciplinary issues.

It’s critical that all of us practice defensive nursing - but even more so for those of us who have a member. Sadly, that’s just a fact of life.

 

I agree entirely with you that because I'm a male nurse and due to the climate we live in with regards to men and sexual misconduct. This is unfortunate. The unit I work in has a rover doing rounds, and had an aide doing his rounds. I would many times also help the aides doing rounds. This night I did some rounds as well since I had a patient who kept complaining if he didn't have ativan he would seize so I wanted to make sure he wasn't going to seize. The doors are normally open during rounds also. I would have assumed if anything happened the aide or the rover would have grabbed me and filed a complaint. Nothing happened. They also have to write on their board they carry of anything that occurs during the shift.

I did learn something though and hopefully this all gets cleared. The patient at one point at the end of the shift came u to me and the aide to say a thunderstorm woke her up and there were no thunderstorms. I'm assuming she may have been experiencing some kind of psychotic breakdown and combined something that happened in the past with her and someone else.

Anyways, I'm sorry for your friend. Luckily here in NJ the attorney I spoke to said the nursing board wouldn't find out and suspend me unless there is probable cause and that I was terminated. If I'm terminated but there is no evidence of anything then the board would find out and I'd explain my side and then they would leave it alone.

This is at my per diem job. I have another full time job which I go to and never had anything like this happen to me. I've never been accused of something like this so I'm so nervous about the outcome.

[The0Walrus, BSN, RN]

On 5/5/2021 at 12:52 PM, Rose_Queen said:

No, he needs to have a valid reason to be in a chart regardless of on or off the clock. Most likely, he will not be assigned this patient for obvious reasons. Not assigned? No reason to access the chart. 

I wouldn't do this because I wouldn't want to give any reason to be terminated for a HIPAA violation. You can get into so much trouble that the trouble isn't worth it. I also just want to get rid of this nightmare and looking into her charts would probably put my license into MORE jeopardy.

[Davey Do]

21 minutes ago, The0Walrus said:

I'm thinking of quitting the job because I would rather quit than be terminated for any reason. I feel like it would be better to quit than get terminated

If  I were in your shoes, Walrus, I would not quit under these circumstances, knowing that I was innocent of any wrongdoing.

For example, I was suspended for 15 days back in '93 for allegedly calling a Doc a name and patient neglect/abuse. I was proactive, rode the storm out, got unemployment benefits, and 2 1/2 years later had the charges expunged from my record and received pay reimbursement.

Last year, I was fired from a 17 year position at Wrongway for trumped up charges and was given the option to resign or be terminated. I chose to be terminated, and I came out ahead in all accounts.

Righteousness must prevail.

 

[The0Walrus, BSN, RN]

Just now, Davey Do said:

If  I were in your shoes, Walrus, I would not quit under these circumstances, knowing that I was innocent of any wrongdoing.

For example, I was suspended for 15 days back in '93 for allegedly calling a Doc a name and patient neglect/abuse. I was proactive, rode the storm out, got unemployment benefits, and 2 1/2 years later had the charges expunged from my record and received pay reimbursement.

Last year, I was fired from a 17 year position at Wrongway for trumped up charges and was given the option to resign or be terminate. I chose to be terminated, and I came out ahead in all accounts.

Righteousness must prevail.

 

Thanks! Yeah I was on the fence on this. I don't want them to have any reason to have any suspicion on me. I didn't do anything so there would be no reason to quit, but at the same time I don't want the hospital to just protect themselves and fire me and now I have to tell all my future employers what happened. This is absolutely embarrassing. Thank you, though. That made me feel better that you were able to come out of this and be employed.

[The0Walrus, BSN, RN]

I'm curious. What would this investigation entail? I have a friend who worked with me that night. She said nobody has spoken to her or anyone else that night about me and what happened so how does an investigation go like?

If they go through cameras there's nothing there. If they speak to any of the employees that night, then they have nothing. The thing is my friend said nobody has contacted her or anyone during that night for anything regarding this issue.

[Davey Do]

5 minutes ago, The0Walrus said:

I'm curious. What would this investigation entail?

This investigation will be what management makes of it, Walrus. 

I propped a NS door open and was charged with a safety infraction. There was a formal meeting called with typed out reports and 8x10 glossy photos presented by HR as evidence.

However, in a situation that I reported breaches in the code of conduct, P&P, and state law statutes, HR ignored my reports and I was eventually terminated over trumped up charges.