PA Board refuses to answer skills question

thanks sue.

i have experience reading and debating other laws and i have read the entire 049 pa code....

i still believe i am correct. i simply want the bon to verify this, which they refuse to do. funny thing is, my dialogue was with a "nursing practice advisor". one of them asked for my phone number and best time to call, which is in the evening after work. when i replied she said basically that she works 8-4 and was unwilling to help outside those times. i provided her with several weekdays i have off but no phone call. just what does a nurse practice advisor do if they are "not authorized to advise"?

it must be nice to be a nurse with a lot of letters behind your name and collect a government paycheck for doing nothing.

gotta love the government.

hope you find a solution. sounds so frustrating.

a debate arose at work regarding the legality of performing of a specific skill. staff nurses and nursing directors were not in agreement. i contacted the pa state board of nursing to get the answer. in one response the respondant provided an opinion but could not cite any part of 49 pa code to support it. i disagreed with the respondant's opinion and cited parts of 49 pa code to support my opinion. the respondant then replied with the following quote; "the board has no authorization to offer you opinions, legal advice or interpretations of the professional nursing law and regulations" and "we suggest that you consult with your own legal counsel..."

this response from the regulatory body of nursing in pa was quite a shock.

has anyone here had problems getting anwers from the pa board of nursing?

jt

oh yeah. repeat after me: the pasbon is not your friend. they won't answer your questions, but as sure as gun's iron, they will go after your license like jaws goes for chum if you wind up messing up.

in 22y i have had to contact the pasbon three times. each time, i was met with indifferent, if not outright rude staff. the system needs a major overhaul.

sorry i can't offer you a better answer, but i did wind up getting my own atty. to interpret an issue regarding licensure for me because i got the same drivel from the board that you did. it's ridiculous that they will not explain the statutes they hold us to.

I believe you also need to check your employer's policy. You definitely need education and training on the job and I believe that LPN's must have yearly training to continue to hang IVAB, and draw labs. Not sure but will see if I can track that info down in the next few days.

I have already checked with my facility and no document has been provided. However, the DON told me that no boundaries exist for LPN practice other than the PA-NPA.

So that means that your employer mas not made any additional restrictions or stipulations for LPN practice at your facility.

I've been reading this thread but have not commented on it previously because my info might be outdated.

But for what it's worth, I worked as an LPN in PA in the 90's and experienced some of the same confusion.

When I first received my PA LPN license, along with the PA rules and NPA booklet, I also received an insert that specifically dealt with LPN's and central lines because they had gotten so many recent calls inquiring about this.

"In the opinion of the board...." (yawn) it was considered to be within LPN scope of practice to administer meds that LPN's are allowed to administer, flush, change the dressings, etc.

The facility where I was working at the time was going crazy because they didn't specifically mention whether or not LPN's could draw blood from central lines and the board just wouldn't clarify or expand upon their previously issued statement.

I learned later that the vagueness was not unique to PA many years later when Hurricane Rita struck.

Many nurses bombarded the TX BNE with questions about what is considered to be patient abandonment as many of us were threatened with this by our employers during the time following Hurricane Rita.

Of course the TX BNE's only response was the usual vague "Case by case basis" baloney which only means that it leaves them open to interpret the NPA and laws however they want to with respect to each licensure hearing/complaint and they can twist and bend their interpretations to fit their desired outcome and decision of each licensee.

They don't want to be put into a position where the nurse in question followed the NPA and letter of the law to the point where the BNE couldn't touch them because they followed their specific rules and regs.

As long as they leave it vague and open to multiple interpretations, they always have an "out" to snag a nurse in any situation and control the outcome of disciplinary action.

I'd also like to add that this may inspire me to work toward someday getting a job at a state board.

They seem to have a corner on the market being the only nursing jobs where you are literally not responsible or held accountable for the things you say and do.

That is, if you say or do much of anything at all during your 8-4 work day.

I'd also like to add that this may inspire me to work toward someday getting a job at a state board.

They seem to have a corner on the market being the only nursing jobs where you are literally not responsible or held accountable for the things you say and do.

That is, if you say or do much of anything at all during your 8-4 work day.

Hahaha! :chuckle

Apparently the confusion and uncertainty exists even at educational institutions. A nurse I work with graduated about 4 years ago. She was told in school she could not touch a PICC line.

I don't know of any RN who had much of any education regarding LPN's and their scope of practice in nursing school.

The frightening thing about this is so many RN's end up in jobs working with, or even supervising LPN's. Many rely on the first thing an instructor told them in school or go by what their first job's policies were regarding LPN's, even though the facilty or state where they are currently working is entirely different.

When I was an LPN and this scope of practice stuff came up, my biggest complaint was always the same:

Ask 4 RN's at work what an LPN is allowed to do and you'll get 4 different answers.

The ambiguous policies written by the facilities often added to the confusion but it still disturbs me today how many of my supervisors, managers, DON's, etc. so often would stutter and be so perplexed at what an LPN was allowed to do and could never give me a straight answer.

This occurred at every LPN job I ever had in every state I worked in the 7 years of being one.

Another frightening thing that I remember specifically about PA when I lived there was a job interview I had in Philly at a pediatric long term vent facility.

The DON (as she referred to herself) who was interviewing me and was actually a respiratory therapist, not an RN, informed me that part of my LPN responsibilites at this job would be hanging TPN.

I pointed out that the PA NPA specifically states that LPN's were not allowed to hang TPN.

Her response was that even though the state forbids it, she allows it at "her" facility and has the authority to override the state.

Dead wrong on so many levels, but then again, how does a respiratory therapist with no RN license or education become a director of nursing in the first place and be in a position to supervise LPN's and RN's for that matter?

I know that I read the same thing about being able to change dressings for PICCS but I never saw specifically any mention of what type of IV we were allowed to do, PICC vs Central vs peripheral, just no TPN, no antineoplastics, no blood products or titrated meds. I know I have that picc policy somewhere as I am a packrat - where- that is the question! But I remember being trained to do it many moons ago.

The fact that the board keeps things so vague limits our effectiveness, our job opportunities, and puts our licenses in jeapordy. Can we sue them? Just kidding- sort of!

I'd also like to add that this may inspire me to work toward someday getting a job at a state board.

They seem to have a corner on the market being the only nursing jobs where you are literally not responsible or held accountable for the things you say and do.

That is, if you say or do much of anything at all during your 8-4 work day.

me too!