I recently received a published form from the State of Florida showing that ARNPs increased 22% over the past two years. RNs only increased by 7.4% If you are a new grad wondering why you can't find a position here is your answer. Our NP mills have pumped out too many graduates for the demand of society. I don't have the data to back it up but if this is happening in Florida I would assume it is happening around the nation.
I'm licensed in Florida but moved to California years ago because I could see the tsunami of new graduates slowly starting to erode the wages of established NPs. It's now happening here in California and I have been directly affected. I can count at least another dozen of my NP colleagues around the nation who are complaining of wage deflation happening because new grads will accept a position at almost any wage. Starting wages are below those for RNs in some cases.
For those of you thinking of becoming a NP think and long and hard before you commit your money and your time. The job is enjoyable but the return on investment is declining year after the year with the flooding of the markets. Maybe one day the leaders of our nursing schools will open a book on economics and understand the relationship between supply and demand rather than stuff another useless nursing theory down our throats.
In my area of the country, Las Vegas, NV, I personally know 6 different nurse practitioners continuing to work as bedside RN's because it pays equal or better than NP pay. That's what they've collectively told me when I asked them why they still work as a nurse anyway. If I were to pursue NP that just sounds disheartening to me.
And my coworker the other day told me, I know I'll take a a pay cut but it's worth it because I'll escape the physical demands of ICU nursing. ?♂️
Specializes in DPT, DNP. Ortho, Family Practice, Psych..
39 minutes ago, myoglobin said:
I believe my school (University of Southern Indiana) is a blessing in that they only charge around $400.00 per credit hour, and they do not "up charge" for out of state residents. Also, unlike many programs they do not show an overt preference in admissions for students who did their undergraduate course work at USI. Most schools that offer distance education will be hard pressed to find preceptors. If this becomes a regulation it may actually favor "for profit schools" since they will be well positioned to "pay" practices for student placement much like St George's in Grenada does for medical residencies (in the United States). Indeed, you probably have a better chance at securing a residency if you graduate from St. George's than you do if you graduate from a mid tier United States medical school despite St. George's being considered "lower tier" in terms of academic competition. The lower cost, non profit state schools will likely find themselves "priced out" from clinical spots while the for profits "lock" up the market (then they will raise fees even higher).
It won’t favor for profit schools. Why? Because many of the prestigious universities claim large resources within their local communities and get first dibs on a lot of different clinics. The reason for profit schools can get away with what they do is because they have absolutely no responsibility to the students. They offer competitive prices because they can. If schools are pressured and required to provide clinical sites, the tuition cost will go up. That is the main reason why students go to these schools. Higher costs give the students less incentive to go these institutions. Try getting a clinical site nearby Rush University in Chicago or in D.C with Georgetown and GWU. If you’re a for profit school student, good luck.
I believe St George’s proves otherwise they now provide the third most residencies in the U S. No doubt big name schools like Duke could do the same, but lower cost state schools would suffer greatly. NP’s provide high quality care at lower prices than MD’s our ability to do so is compromised by higher education costs.
Specializes in DPT, DNP. Ortho, Family Practice, Psych..
28 minutes ago, myoglobin said:
I believe St George’s proves otherwise they now provide the third most residencies in the U S. No doubt big name schools like Duke could do the same, but lower cost state schools would suffer greatly. NP’s provide high quality care at lower prices than MD’s our ability to do so is compromised by higher education costs.
You’re honestly comparing apples and orange man. Discussing the number of schools for medical school and nursing is a night and day comparison. Different variables at play. If you’re telling me that Phoenix and Walden are going to out compete more reputable schools, with standards being raised and with accountability for clinical sites, we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
And you’re incorrect about half of nursing schools requiring GRE. That is not a factual statement. There might be a small minority but not a majority. The only consistent GRE requirement for nursing is their PhD programs.
Specializes in DPT, DNP. Ortho, Family Practice, Psych..
1 hour ago, ZenLover said:
I understand your concerns and agree. I took the GRE. The GRE doesn’t test critical thinking under pressure like actual critical care nursing does. You can have a 4.0 and completely lack common sense and critical thinking. If you can memorize you are golden with most tests. Or you learn the test, practice and practice, and there you have your high score. Your resume, your references and your essays should speak volumes. I have seen the same thing at the bedside you have, and I have to wonder who wrote their essays for them....but we have idiots sitting behind benches that went to Harvard, so....I don’t know what the fix is.
So you agree with the current vetting process, and believe that nursing does it the right way in regards to not including GRE/a standardized test? I do agree with some of the points you made. Dumb dumbs can still get through with these exams. Though, I still think it’s better than nothing and it should be factored in alongside the rest of the requirements.
1) There is a lot of talk among the practicing NPs and Docs I work with about online or for profit programs. Even if they offer money for preceptorship I don’t see them turning down VCU or UVA students for that $ and if they did it would get around fast, not in a good way. Everyone agrees to stay the hell away from programs that require you to pay for preceptorship by the hour!
2) UVA is a state school and a top 20 for DNP. I don’t think I am being short changed when in my interview they asked me how I felt about finding my own preceptorship. I think it told them a lot about my research prior to applying and my own commitment to my education when I told them it didn’t scare me. I have worked long enough that I have a nice little network.
There is a distinct difference in a for profit with little name recognition, low standards and high costs not telling you until last minute you are on your own and a reputable program wanting assurance that you have researched and don’t require spoon feeding at a graduate level. The 2 can not be lumped as the same.
Students can’t complain about placements and then get upset when they are asked to research their own or at least demonstrate willingness to do so. You can get an education, and you are paying, but you still have to assume workload and risk.
So you agree with the current vetting process, and believe that nursing does it the right way in regards to not including GRE/a standardized test? I do agree with some of the points you made. Dumb dumbs can still get through with these exams. Though, I still think it’s better than nothing and it should be factored in alongside the rest of the requirements.
I am not familiar with everyone’s vetting process. I think the processes I have been through recently with professional life being examined, in depth interviews, content and quality of references and essays being a greater start.
I have always been a great student. High IQ, great test taker, had it all from the beginning. But no way did I have any business pursuing this degree when I was younger....for s lot of reasons and not all having to do with age. I definitely wasn’t going to get anything handed to me for pedigree growing up in a SC trailer park.
Tests only tell us a little about an individual. There is so much more that should go into a vetting process. I know 20 year olds more prepared to help others than 50 year olds.
The reputable nursing schools are working on this because their graduates ARE their name....I don’t know that Walden cares.
This is where substantial work experience in the field makes such a big difference. If you are considering an NP program, you should have been working in that field as an RN. You should have developed something of a professional network. You should know some people who might precept you. Yes, it might fall through, but it is such a completely different scenario than a neophyte cold calling potential preceptors.
This is where substantial work experience in the field makes such a big difference. If you are considering an NP program, you should have been working in that field as an RN. You should have developed something of a professional network. You should know some people who might precept you. Yes, it might fall through, but it is such a completely different scenario than a neophyte cold calling potential preceptors.
I would vastly prefer asking strangers than people I know. Rejection from strangers isn’t personal, rejection from people you know is.
I would vastly prefer asking strangers than people I know. Rejection from strangers isn’t personal, rejection from people you know is.
Possibly. If someone I knew said no, I think it might also come from a place of not wanting to disturb the relationship that exists. It can be hard to be a teacher and really give someone feedback they need to hear....and you like them personally. My plan is to ask the people I trust most who they recommend.
This is where substantial work experience in the field makes such a big difference. If you are considering an NP program, you should have been working in that field as an RN. You should have developed something of a professional network. You should know some people who might precept you. Yes, it might fall through, but it is such a completely different scenario than a neophyte cold calling potential preceptors.
Working in an ICU wouldnt mean you know OB preceptors
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In my area of the country, Las Vegas, NV, I personally know 6 different nurse practitioners continuing to work as bedside RN's because it pays equal or better than NP pay. That's what they've collectively told me when I asked them why they still work as a nurse anyway. If I were to pursue NP that just sounds disheartening to me.
And my coworker the other day told me, I know I'll take a a pay cut but it's worth it because I'll escape the physical demands of ICU nursing. ?♂️