Online RN to BSN Programs

pugluvnrn · Jan 3, 2004

Originally posted by debRNo1

I gave Deb's quotes quotation marks ( still learing to use my new X=mas laptop!)

"Why are you so bitter and angry towards nurses trying to upgrade themselves to RN thru EXCELSIOR ???? Tell us a little about yourself and what you did prior to choosing NURSING as a career "

Whoa! There is no need to blast at lizz for the obvious reputation that EC grads have...Even though you may be a competent practitioner, many EC grads ARE NOT due to ther low standards for admission.This is obviously a problem and has been for some time or else the California BRN would not have enforced their new standards for EC grads. Right?

"The program is not for everyone"

No, its not but anyone with a credit card can gain admission

" they do not put you on "east street" towards a degree and you are not "buying" a degree either. "

Oh I beg to differ....they do put you on "easy street" ( did you mean to put a 'y' there?) that is why EC is has been stripped of the right to test their own graduates_ the BRN proposes that EC grads can only be tested through a CA approved nursing school ( university or community college ).

"You are on your instructor and basically teach yourself what you need to know. "

As a student in an MSN program, I can tell you this is not effective in teaching advanced nursing practice!!I suspect you meant you are your "own" instructor...who wants that when you are paying good money to gain an advanced degree!!
The instructor of my Research class is not only a Phd but the editor of a Nurse Practitioner magazine.
Do I want to be my own instructor when it comes to writing my thesis??
I DON'T THINK SO!

"deb RN proud EXCELSIOR grad 2001"

Anyway this is my point...I am sorry that you have been thrown into the lot of inept EC grads but please understand because of their low standards they have produced many incompetent nurses who could and probably have injured patients. Why do you think the BRN intervened and that many hospitals are no longer hiring them?
I was told personally by our clinical education head that she was recommending that no more EC grads be considered for employment.
Maybe it is just my line of work....I am a nurse at a Children's Hospital and I believe a higher standard of practice is held in pedatrics.

The bottom line is that there should be NO shortcuts to becoming an RN especially if lives are endangered and I mentioned prior in a post that the EC grad I worked with WAS endangering lives...the lives of CHILDREN WHO HAVE CANCER....is that justifiable???

I don't think so.

Again...that is just my opinion And I believe the parents of the children (and the children of course) who populate the floor where I work would support me 100%, and they are the real consumers here.
Remember, we are all patient advocates and protecting our patients against unsafe practitoners is our obligation.

pugluvnrn · Jan 3, 2004

"Besides the school issue, the California requirements also mention the need for documented clinical time in "advanced medical surgical nursing, psychiatric nursing and geriatrics."

This is a quote form Lizz that I wanted to expand on because it also explains the point I was trying to make early on but didn't due to Holiday Brain Funk ( and please excuse me if I jump around here)

What an online program cannot provide for you is diversity, hands on, and a well rounded education.....even if you have been a nurse for a number of years.

In my advanced physical assessment class ( for my BSN) there were students who had been practicing 20 years and were having difficulty ( It was REALLY thorough!! Vision, hearing, health history taking...stuff that you just don't do routinely as a staff RN.)

In my community health rotation I took a PHN 's case load and worked it. I learned SO much about resources and referrals.

In my leadership and management clinical I worked side by side with an NP at a home for emotionally and mentally challenged children....even if I had been a pediatric nurse for 50 years I can guarantee you I never would have had this type of experience in a hospital or clinic setting.

So just like a traditional ADN program gives you a well rounded experience, the same is to be said of a traditional RN-BSN program or LVN to RN program ( I know my community college had them rotate throught the last year of classes and clinicals)

I am sorry if I just do NOT think that Online education can offer the same benefits, even though it may be a solution of sorts for some.

BBFRN, BSN, PhD · Jan 3, 2004

I can see what you're saying Pug, but some of us aren't left high and dry to be our own educators. I work in a teaching hospital where there is a lot of community outreach activity, and have a unit-based clinical educator at my "disposal" for anything I might need help with. She is more than willing to set aside time to help me in situations where I might feel I need hands-on help with something. I have just as much support as any brand new nursing student on their first day of clinicals, but I don't need that much support.

Plus, I am certainly not going to run to the nearest pediatric hospital and attempt to gain employment there. I'm planning to stay on my current floor (where I've been for several years) for quite a while, and to work until retirement in the same hospital, God willing. Taking classes as opposed to doing it through EC would not really make a difference in my work performance in my particular situation- I'm already well acclimated to how things work there, and will find very few surprises once I'm done with this. I'm hoping you're not assuming I will be a substandard RN, simply because I chose EC to finish off this round of my education. I'm in a situation where my certifications, credentials, etc. have probably superceded my current licensure at this point. I feel like I'm being responsible enough to my patients and myself to further my education and upgrade my licensure while remaining in the workforce. The LPNs have outnumbered the RNs on our floor for too long now, with no new RN hires in sight. I think my patients/employers would rather have me, an RN experienced in trauma on the roster than a per diem nurse with no trauma experience at all. And that's what we're getting a lot of the time, because we are the only trauma 1 hospital in the region- where else are these local agency nurses going to get trauma experience if they haven't worked for us already? I need to get my RN to better take care of my patients at this point- all the LPNs on our floor do. It's a very active floor where the accuity is getting worse almost daily, and the skill mix is way off right now. It's at the point where the LPNs are taking the most critical patients, because there aren't enough RNs to do charge, push all of our meds, and take those critical patients at the same time. I just want to do my part in improving the situation on my floor. How can that be wrong?

I have no aspirations to venture into pediatrics with no clinical experience whatsoever- I'm just not that darn irresponsible. I am responsible enough to know that if I didn't feel I was getting a quality education, then I would change schools/methods. I have done that before. And I'm intelligent enough to know when I'm being screwed, thank you very much- and I'm proactive enough to do something about it.

I don't venture outside my scope of practice or knowlege base now, I never did it when I was agency, and I don't plan on doing that when I'm done with this program. Please, please don't equate the decisions to gain a distance education with irresponsibility, because in most instances that isn't the case.

Sheri257 · Jan 3, 2004

Originally posted by pugluvnrn
that is why EC is has been stripped of the right to test their own graduates_ the BRN proposes that EC grads can only be tested through a CA approved nursing school ( university or community college ).

Good point. No wonder Excelsior pulled out.

I've seen this with other agencies before. Instead of just saying "You're Out," where the state can be sued, they issue all of these requirements which essentially have the same effect.

BTW, thanks for your support. I know how you feel. At the same time, I have developed a lot of respect for people like Laura and others. I do wish there was a solution, but I honestly don't know what that is.

After reading the board minutes again, I don't think Excelsior handled this properly. They may have been doomed from the start, but I also see a lot of mistakes that would alienate any state agency.

Maybe the real solution is to remove the profit motive, and have the state colleges develop more flexible programs. That already seems to be happening now, although with the state budget crisis, probably not fast enough.

BBFRN, BSN, PhD · Jan 3, 2004

Originally posted by lizz

Maybe the real solution is to remove the profit motive, and have the state colleges develop more flexible programs. That already seems to be happening now, although with the state budget crisis, probably not fast enough.

I agree with this- it's the same here, and the only really flexible programs in my area are for RN-BSN or RN-MSN. I think the hospitals could develop more flexibility as well in the direction of supporting LPNs such as myself that want to return to school and get that RN without missing much work. I am PRN right now, and I work more hours than those who are on a Baylor Plan while they are in a bridge program, or the ones who are hardly working at all right now- plus, I am available to work throughout the week. The thing is, there is a critical RN shortage, and there are plenty of LPNs right in their own back yard that would be willing to go back to school to help out with this. Why aren't more hospitals/schools tapping into this resource? Most of those LPNs only need 1 more year of schooling to get that RN degree and begin to take on more responsibilities on the floor. And more LPNs would go through a traditional program if they could work at the same time, and if their employers would help out with the tuition. That certainly makes more sense than placing all their focus on recruiting new RNs (admittedly at lower, entry-level pay, but they are often offered tuition reimbursement) that they will have to completely train to work on the floors that the LPNs are already working on.

And why aren't more teaching hospitals doing LPN-Diploma RN programs? That would solve the clinical problem right there, as well as bolstering up the slots for nurse externships.

Ideally, if I could take nursing courses with clinical components at my hospital, schedule those courses around my work schedule, and take 1 final exam for each didactic and clinical component- I would do that in a heart beat. I'm sure there's some way to work that out, but they'd have to hire more clinical educators in our hospital, or at least change their current requirements of working half their schedules on the floors (thus removing some MSNs from the floor staffing pool).

Sheri257 · Jan 4, 2004

I just wanted to say this is a great post Laura.

I honestly don't know why either. The next time I have a chance to talk to the head of my nursing school, I will ask.

BBFRN, BSN, PhD · Jan 4, 2004

:chuckle Isn't that the first sign of the apocalypse or something? :roll

Cqc_Cqb · Jan 4, 2004

Does anyone know of any online rn to bsn programs that have good reputations and low cost. I move around alot and attending a traditional school just isnt going to happen. So if anyone knows of any good online rn to bsn programs please let me know. Thanks for your time in advance.

Sheri257 · Jan 4, 2004

Originally posted by Cqc_Cqb
Does anyone know of any online rn to bsn programs that have good reputations and low cost. I move around alot and attending a traditional school just isnt going to happen. So if anyone knows of any good online rn to bsn programs please let me know. Thanks for your time in advance.

Ask around. You'd be surprized at what you might find.

The traditional programs in my area do have or are developing online rn-to-bsn programs. Check with your state schools and community colleges, which definitely have lower cost.

Not only is the major state university in my area developing an online rn-bsn program, but I just found out that the head of my nursing program also runs an online program for another state university, which is located 90 miles away.

It's an online program designed for working nurses, and they meet on Saturdays at the local community college. It's also much cheaper than something like University of Phoenix.

I wouldn't have known about this if I hadn't asked. So talk to as many people as you can. There's a lot of stuff out there.

New Castle Ken · Jan 4, 2004

Originally posted by Cqc_Cqb
Does anyone know of any online rn to bsn programs that have good reputations and low cost. I move around alot and attending a traditional school just isnt going to happen. So if anyone knows of any good online rn to bsn programs please let me know. Thanks for your time in advance.

I was surprised when I wrote my book at all the options that there are now for RNs. The important thing is to do a lot of research and find a program that is right for you. Since there are so many opportunities nurses can be picky. Obviously Excelsior is one school that is more distance than online. Another popular though expensive program is University of Phoenix. Our university has a good distance program (University of Delaware) as does St. Joseph's where I earned my BSPA.

U of Del

St. Joseph's College

Good luck. Be sure to do a lot of research and compare several before making a choice. And after you take a class or two if you do not like the particular college switch programs and transfer the credits.

Ken

Be sure to see my Web page.

BBFRN, BSN, PhD · Jan 4, 2004

Great website, Ken! And you are a testimony to the fact that most healthcare professionals that obtain a distance education are not mindless maniacs waiting for the chance to kill other peoples' family members.

I had read the Nursing Spectrum articles and didn't realize it was you that had written them. They were informative, and helped me in my decision to choose this learning method. Thanks, Ken!

New Castle Ken · Jan 4, 2004

Originally posted by lgflamini
Great website, Ken! And you are a testimony to the fact that most healthcare professionals that obtain a distance education are not mindless maniacs waiting for the chance to kill other peoples' family members.

I had read the Nursing Spectrum articles and didn't realize it was you that had written them. They were informative, and helped me in my decision to choose this learning method. Thanks, Ken!

Yes it was me

So happy that you like online study. When I started my BS there were no BSN programs at a distance and the few distance degrees available then relied on correspondence. I am pleased to see that there are so many online BSN programs now. Good luck.

Ken