Long time no see! I haven't visited here in ages (lots of things going on personally), but when I saw this the other day, I knew I had to share....you folks here will understand it in a way no one else in my life will!
It was Thursday afternoon, I was watching Judge Joe Brown in the background as I got ready to go to work. Some lady was suing some dude for money for something (that's what happens when I half-watch something, LOL). Anyway, Judge Joe is asking the plaintiff lady what she does for a living..."you're a bus driver, right?" Lady: "Yes, and I have two jobs, I'm also a NURSE."
Joe: "Are you an RN or an LPN...?"
Lady: "I'm a medical assistant....REGISTERED."
Joe: "So, you're a bus driver and a nurse....(continues to discuss case, talks about how hard it is for her to support herself even without kids, blah blah blah).
You guys know where I am going with this. It's been discussed countless times here, I know. This was just a different forum for me to hear it in, and it made me MORE mad because all I could do was watch....and think, "THIS is how the misconceptions happen, dang it!" Anyone watching who doesn't know any better assumes that yes, this lady is a nurse.
I'm not saying her job isn't important, or that she doesn't have a role in healthcare. Of course she does. But that role is NOT of a nurse.
I know there are posters here that don't get/don't care about other people using the title "nurse," and that's fine. To each their own, no big deal. I'm just one of those people that it DOES bother, and hearing that exchange fired me up a little. The way she had to tack that word on the end...."REGISTERED"....like THAT is what makes the difference here. I realize that some MA's are registered and some are not, yes....it just has nothing to do with being a nurse either way.
I worked in a doctor's office with 2 medical assistants who were very hard-working and knowledgable. Some medical assistants do think of themselves as nurses, and many patients see them as nurses because of the type of work they do. However, my thought is if you aren't a licensed nurse, RN or LPN, you've got no business calling yourself one. It's confusing and dishonest.
Specializes in Wilderness Medicine, ICU, Adult Ed..
I was wondering something...
Several people have said that "nurse" is a "protected title" in their states. I'm not sure if it is in Alabama or not, but RubyVee (I think) said that her venipuncturist could get in trouble with the BON for eroniously passing herself off as a nurse.
Now my question is this: In those states where the title is protected, the BON probably can't do anything, because the non-nurse isn't involved with the BON. S/he would not have a license for the BON to do anything about. So, what is the actual legal entity that would do something, and what could be done?
That wasn't stated very articulately, and I apologize, and I'm not being facetious here. I really want to know.
The reason that the BON might get involved is because the BON is responsible for the regulation of nursing; including legislation making it a crime to practice nursing without a license (which this venipuncturist might be doing, depending on how your state law is written). More in my post below.
Specializes in Wilderness Medicine, ICU, Adult Ed..
I have been licensed as an RN in four states. No, I am NOT running from the law! Shame on you for even thinking that! What I am getting to is this; in my experience (limited as it is to only four states), it is a crime for anyone to “put themselves out" that is, claim to be employable as, a registered nurse or a licensed vocational (or practical) nurse, unless they hold a currently valid and active license in that state. In some states, it can be a crime even to submit an application for a job as an RN or LVN if the applicant is not licensed. An individual who does this might be subject to indictment on the charge of "practicing nursing without a license."
On the subject of someone calling himself or herself a nurse, things get iffier. As others have correctly written, the word "nurse" is a word common to the English language, having many meanings. It is less likely that a person could get in legal trouble for using that word. A lot would depend on what a prosecutor thought the person intended to communicate by using that word.
However, to me, it is more an ethical question than a legal one. I am an old curmudgeon, and I learned nursing ethics more than 30 years ago. Back in those primordial days of yore, we were taught that it was a serious breach of ethics to misrepresent ones professional credentials, capabilities, or scope of practice in any way. Licenses, we were told (correctly), were public documents, and the patient had a right to know what credentials those caring for him or her did, or did not have. What bothers me most about non-nurses using that title to describe themselves is that they are being dishonest with a patient about the care the patient can, and cannot, receive from them. I am no lawyer, but I know right from wrong (usually) and misrepresenting ones abilities to a patient is wrong! This is an issue of patient rights and advocacy for the patient.
Personally it does not bother me too much when non RNs or LPNs call themselves nurses as long as they are a caretaker of some sort. The term "nurse" is a rather broad term that predates the modern conception of the professional registered nurse. There is a reason why we identify ourselves as RNs, LPNs, or MAs within the clinical setting. The OP described a situation outside of the clinical setting, this has to be taken into account. That being said, someone who misrepresents themselves as a licensed or registered professional without holding that license or registration is due some type of punitive action.
I have been licensed as an RN in four states. No, I am NOT running from the law! Shame on you for even thinking that! What I am getting to is this; in my experience (limited as it is to only four states), it is a crime for anyone to “put themselves out" that is, claim to be employable as, a registered nurse or a licensed vocational (or practical) nurse, unless they hold a currently valid and active license in that state. In some states, it can be a crime even to submit an application for a job as an RN or LVN if the applicant is not licensed. An individual who does this might be subject to indictment on the charge of "practicing nursing without a license."
On the subject of someone calling himself or herself a nurse, things get iffier. As others have correctly written, the word "nurse" is a word common to the English language, having many meanings. It is less likely that a person could get in legal trouble for using that word. A lot would depend on what a prosecutor thought the person intended to communicate by using that word.
However, to me, it is more an ethical question than a legal one. I am an old curmudgeon, and I learned nursing ethics more than 30 years ago. Back in those primordial days of yore, we were taught that it was a serious breach of ethics to misrepresent ones professional credentials, capabilities, or scope of practice in any way. Licenses, we were told (correctly), were public documents, and the patient had a right to know what credentials those caring for him or her did, or did not have. What bothers me most about non-nurses using that title to describe themselves is that they are being dishonest with a patient about the care the patient can, and cannot, receive from them. I am no lawyer, but I know right from wrong (usually) and misrepresenting ones abilities to a patient is wrong! This is an issue of patient rights and advocacy for the patient.
Thanks! I too am an RN of over 40 years, and I'm thinking, like you, it's more of an ethical question. I do know that someone can't apply for an RN job without an RN license, or an LPN job without an LPN license... but the question in my mind arose when I was thinking to myself, "Self, if that MA calls herself a nurse, and I take exception to it, would I call the BON? Would I call the police? Would I get an attorney and file a civil suit?"
In other words, besides being "offended", to whom would I appeal for legal action? So since we were talking about that issue here, it seemed like a good arena in which to pose the question.
It turned out I have learned quite a lot from everyone's posts (as I usually do here), and just LOVE reading them. I guess the thing I enjoy the most is the fact that you all have given me so many more aspects of the issue to consider.
"As an LPN for 32 yrs i am licensed by the state as a Licensed Practical Nurse so YES LPN's ARE NURSES ."
I try not to take it too personally when people are ignorant and claim LPNs are not nurses. Being a nurse has never been about prestige, so any nurse who feels that he/she is superior to an LPN just because they have "RN" after his/her name is being pretentious and I don't take it to heart. I know what I am. Licensed Practical NURSE, right? If we were not nurses, they would call us something else. Anymore I just go ahead and tell people right off the bat that I'm a Licensed Practical Nurse, that way they don't have to throw the RN or LPN question at me. Unless you've got a central line, IV meds or blood hanging, you shouldn't worry about me being an LPN. There's my
Self, if that MA calls herself a nurse, and I take exception to it, would I call the BON? Would I call the police? Would I get an attorney and file a civil suit?
I think if we are talking a clinic and an MA actually performing her duties, the best course of action is to contact her supervisor. Let them know that you were offended and that state law is being violated. If you really want to pursue it, make sure to document the call. If it happens again, head up the chain. Eventually, you will hit someone that makes policy. Keep in mind, they will flag your chart.
I honestly don't think police would do ANYTHING if called. Line one: domestic assault, line two: an MA verbally misrepresenting herself. Which one do you think they care about?
Just recently my niece graduated and passed her test to be a Medical Assistant. On FB, my sister said "Oh how nice to have 2 nurses in the family!" I love my niece and I'm very proud of her, but I cringed to the bone to think that all my hard work to become an RN is somehow even close to what she's accomplished. She CAN NOT (and not because she's incapable) do what I do...because she hasn't done the work required to allow her to do it.....I just had to keep my mouth shut, as I knew it would cause all kinds of problems w/in the family if I said anything...but after reading all these posts on defending our name, I would love to know a tactful way to set my family straight....
Just recently my niece graduated and passed her test to be a Medical Assistant. On FB, my sister said "Oh how nice to have 2 nurses in the family!" I love my niece and I'm very proud of her, but I cringed to the bone to think that all my hard work to become an RN is somehow even close to what she's accomplished. She CAN NOT (and not because she's incapable) do what I do...because she hasn't done the work required to allow her to do it.....I just had to keep my mouth shut, as I knew it would cause all kinds of problems w/in the family if I said anything...but after reading all these posts on defending our name, I would love to know a tactful way to set my family straight....
Personally I do not identify myself as a nurse so I have already differentiated myself, I refer to myself as a registered nurse in all contexts. To me, a nurse is but a point-of-care healthcare associate. There is a huge difference between a RN and a LPN (although many LPNs would disagree), most people would say that both professions are deserving of the title nurse, why would you lump yourself together like that? Same thing goes for a nurse practitioner, I do not say nurse Susie, I say nurse practitioner Susie.
I don't get it...because I would never dream of telling anyone I'm a doctor when I'm a nurse. Why the heck would anyone want to embarrass themselves by claiming they're a nurse when they're not??
ionatan
54 Posts
I worked in a doctor's office with 2 medical assistants who were very hard-working and knowledgable. Some medical assistants do think of themselves as nurses, and many patients see them as nurses because of the type of work they do. However, my thought is if you aren't a licensed nurse, RN or LPN, you've got no business calling yourself one. It's confusing and dishonest.