I am not going to be popular with this thread, but here goes...I have seen quite a few posts about the older workers that are new grads thinking they deserve a job more because they had a previous career. Many times, these former careers are NOT healthcare related, so it does not help with their nursing career at all. My question to the older workers who are new grads is why do you feel like you deserve jobs over the younger new grads?
I feel like if anything, the older workers seem more entitled than younger workers. When you get a second career, you are starting at ground zero. So, let the opinions fly.
I am unemployed because I applied for like 20 jobs and will not take a position I do not want as I want longevity. I am waiting on two jobs that are up in the air.
Yikes. I'm not even an over-forty nurse and my first thought was "must be great to have the opportunity to be picky about where you want to work." You must still live at home, yes?
Wish me luck... Here's the cold truth: (I've mentioned several times I was an HR coordinator as a function of my former career). Always hire the 30 something before the 20 something. Why? They have more at stake. Period. A lot more to lose makes a better employee in most cases. I often hired career changes and 20 something's (they were both plentiful in my last career). I ALWAYS hired the 30+ club more often. I also shied away from the 40-50 crowd as they often didn't have the stamina for the job.
Truth be told, I think this is pretty across the board in most fields. 30 means car payment, mortgage, mouths to feed in most cases. Those people work! 20's are often very care free, and tough to keep. I also often had to train them how to have a job, not just do a job.
*hides*
I was hired during a period of huge turnover on my unit mostly related to life choices that the younger RNs had made -- following a doctor-husband to residency, marrying someone out of state, etc. I am a younger RN, btw. Only 26 at the time.
I was not asked directly (obviously because it would be illegal) but saw my then-hiring nurse manager's eyes light up when I mentioned the new house that we had just bought - mortgage payment! my five-year marriage to a man with five dedicated years with a solid company but niche field in the area. My mom was very sick at the time, too, and I tossed that in. I threw her little anchors that made her aware that I needed to stay rooted in the community.
And I got the job.
/we're thinking about moving to the pacific northwest now
Had 4 interviews, 2 no go (I have not had offers yet) and 2 up in air. All are positions I wanted (dream jobs if you will). There is no point in applying for jobs you do not plan on staying at--some people do their 1 year and leave. Management gets horrible opinions about new grads and do not hire them from that. I am not turning offers down, I am only applying for jobs I want. Therefore, if I got an offer, it would be what I want.
So, I think I am doing new grads a favor (and myself). Yes, I live at home. I pay for my stuff (UDS and therapy appts) with money I saved in the past (I am not very materialistic, therefore, I didn't spend a lot of my money from jobs).
I do not want ICU, ER, L&D (I like the floor, but L&D is slow for me), OR. Peds depends--I like a mixed floor, solely pediatrics--not so much. I will float, but do not want an everyday job in them. I enjoy Med/Surg, Psych (obvious reasons), and public health. The jobs I applied for were Med/Surg, Psych, and public health. Chance of getting a position I want if offered a job? 100%.
I want to stay at a job for a long time. I do not want to get my one year and leave. I want to stay past that point. People may say it is picky, I am saying it is doing myself, employer, and future new grads a favor.
*I also like home health. I am not allowed to do home health though.*
I am unemployed because I applied for like 20 jobs and will not take a position I do not want as I want longevity. I am waiting on two jobs that are up in the air.
Perhaps while you are holding out for your dream job, you could get a non-healthcare related job in the meantime. Then you can gain the skills and a better perspective on just how transferable some of that experience can actually be to nursing!
Besides, if you're going to keep turning down new-grad opportunities (that numerous others would kill for might I add), you're going to need that "unrelated" experience when you become an old-new grad and interviewers are asking about the big gap on your resume following nursing school.
I do have a non healthcare related volunteer position. It actually compliments what fields I want and on my interviews, I am able to relate this to those positions. It is not technically healthcare, but it's a direct parallel volunteer thing...great experience I have been there for a little over half a year and still there. I have been asked about the gap. Technically, it is not completely from being picky. I have only been looking since January because I am in HPMP. I had to be approved to look for work first. I do tell them I volunteer and how it relates. I also had PCT experience.
^My comment was really meant to make you think about your OP and why "older" posters might feel more "entitled" to a job. You're perceiving posts through an unfiltered lens. You're not having to make a mortgage payment or risk losing your house; you don't have to feed your kids or risk them going hungry.
I have actually seen what I think you meant to convey in your OP during nursing school. I remember asking a fellow classmate if she could help me clean up a massive poo-splosion. She was an older student with a long job history which we all knew about because that's all she ever talked about. And she ranted at me something like "I shouldn't have to be cleaning up poop. I've already put in my hours. I worked for over fifteen years at a crap job. This is what you should be doing because you're young." I was like "oh, okay" and went about my business. She wanted to be a nurse manager right out of school.
tl;dr but I think what you think of as the older entitled crowd is more like the crowd who is frantic to meet their responsibilities as adults.
I think entitlement comes in many shapes and forms, including the idea of getting the job one wants right out of the gate.
For the record, I'm not smug or cocky, I'm just to the point. I was trying to get across that hiring managers have a lot of applications to get through (I personally remember looking through 800 for 3 jobs at one point) and we make snap judgements all the time. Yeah, I can figure out your age off an app (I'm not supposed to be able to, but I can). Yeah I can suss out how badly you need this job off an app. I can even look at your previous unrelated experience and how you described it, and figure out if you will fit in well with my team.
I'm trying to give you the very plain truth about how "we" think, and from industry to industry, "we" generally think the same. We think about return on investment, and often the slightly more seasoned older candidate just looks better on paper. They may not be better, or even deserve to be viewed as better, but we are making a judgement in two minutes about whether to call or not to call.
I don't, however, think the career changer deserves a job over the limited experincer, I just wanted you to get a glimpse of how the HR department sees things.
dirtyhippiegirl, I do not have children. See previous response on that--I watch children. I truly, truly am really considering not having children. I do not want them. Maybe I will change my mind after a hiatus from children, but not now.
I do not understand why people look down on living at home. Even adults. Perhaps if your married, it is different. That would be awkward having intimate relations having parents around. I think we (US people) are one of the few countries that does not want to be around family and parents and grandparents, etc. Other cultures have no qualms. I do not think it is bad. I pay for my stuff and actually, my parents told me they would miss me quite a bit if I moved (I am the younger one and so they haven't yet experienced empty nest and apparently do not want to. Plus, I actually help out around the house and run a lot of errands that my parents need). I am looking "up the road a piece", but not so far that my parents cannot visit often. I am trying to stay in the region because I actually love the region I am from; but, would definitely consider across the state (I actually love Virginia in general, but I have a soft spot for where I live).
Alison, it is not entitlement. It (the job) is posted and I am picky because I want to stay. If someone was offered an ICU job and that's what the posting was for and the new grad said "no, I want med/surg" and expects to be accommodated; that is entitlement. The rational of hiring a person that actually just isn't interested in the position, but needs the magical 1 year explains why new grad turnover is high or that they switch jobs after the one year. If you want a job hopper and turnover, please hire the one that does not want the position offered but wants the magical one year.
HR would not see what I am not applying for because I didn't apply. I would get the vibe someone really wanted a certain area if all their applications were for a certain area. Now, if you do the scattered thing (ICU, ER, Med Surg, Psych, OB, Peds); how does HR know what the applicant really wants? Anyone can say any floor is their dream job, actions speak louder than words, however. Applications to one area and acknowledging that is their dream area tells me that they are in it for what it is. Not just any job.
dirtyhippiegirl, BSN, RN
1,571 Posts
Yikes. I'm not even an over-forty nurse and my first thought was "must be great to have the opportunity to be picky about where you want to work." You must still live at home, yes?