Not much on the telly tonight, so I ended up watching "My 600 lb. Life" --- the show where folks go to Houston for bariatric surgery… some successful, some not so much.
After watching a couple episodes, I'm left with some mixed feelings.
Is super morbid obesity:
1) a disease along the same lines as alcoholism and drug addiction?
2) a lifestyle issue (poor food choices, lack of exercise, laziness)?
3) a mental health issue (poor self esteem, depression, etc.)?
What have you seen in your practice re: number of super morbidly obese admissions, bariatric surgeries, disease processes related to super morbid obesity, difficulty caring for super morbidly obese patients.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
Used as a stereotype it's ugly and untrue, but it's delusional to deny that there are people who could work but choose not to and are content to live on the taxpayer dime. They do exist, and any that do need to be aggressively kicked off the rolls so that we can afford to help those who actually do need it.
The notion that millions of lazy losers who are "content to live off of the taxpayer dime" is costing you or me or any other tax payer gazillions of dollars is a lie that was begun under Ronnie Raygun. In reality, it is pennies compared to corporate welfare and other budgetary items.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
When and where did I say I was? I want perpetrators of fraud prosecuted. That's a government function. I want those who can work to be forced to, and that's a legislative function. I want self-sufficiency to be more attractive than dependency, and that's a social/parental function. Ultimately, I want people who could take care of themselves off the rolls permanently, because there's limited amount of money, and I want it available for people who truly are unable to earn for themselves because of disability, mental illness, etc. The vulnerable are our societal responsibility. The capable who refuse to make good choices and expect the rest of us to finance them, are not.
You called me out as a Catholic. Do you think being Catholic means I'm supposed to just willingly hand my earnings over to anyone who comes calling? Catholic teaching recognizes the worker's right to keep his earnings and control what is done with them. That's justice, because they are the fruit of his labor. I am called to charity, which includes helping those who truly cannot help themselves. I am not called to submit to the injustice of having my wages taken by those who won't work or refuse to be responsible with their resources.
I think government assistance should be a temporary hand up, not a lifestyle, for anyone except the truly disabled. Medical certification for any physical or mental illness is appropriate for the people who have them, and time limits for everyone else.
Again, I'm trying to understand how my desire to keep limited resources available for those who truly can't do for themselves, as opposed to wasting them on those who could, makes me some kind of uncharitable, uncompassionate ogre.
The vast majority of welfare fraud DOES NOT OCCUR at the level of the recipient. Fraud completed by the poor recipients of welfare is pennies compared to the corporate fraud of said funds. This information is easily teased out of databases with just a little bit of research. The notion that the poor are bilking the system at some alarming rate is, again, a lie that was begun with the concept of the "welfare queen" as coined by Reagan and believed by conservatives without much question everywhere ever since.
Specializes in Psych, Addictions, SOL (Student of Life).
I would venture to say that I practice more tolerance than the average person and yes I consider myself a Christian. "God helps those that help themselves" When I am not working or going to school I volunteer at a food co-op that provides free food to people who do not quailfy for benefits. All if it fresh health food grown in local gardens like my own. I just delived 25 pounds of home grown potatoes as that was my most recent harvest. The food is free and we don't turn anyone away until the food is gone. WE don't actually check their financial status if they come they get a bag of food. While it is true that some people cannot work due to imental or physical illness approximately 50% of the people on Welfare in California are fully capable of working - Our state legislature is considering a Welfare to work bill which will only allow 3 months of benefits at a time then if you are able bodied you will be required to get a job or prove you are looking for work. I probably provide more services that most of the people bashing Red and Myself. I volunteer every year from free flu shot clinics. Provide support and counseling for nurses and other medical professional suffering from addiction and mental health diagnoses. There is a saying that one should not judge until they have walked in the shoes of the person they are judging. I have lived in a dirt floored shack in Mexico, homeless in a tent in oregon, been a battered wife with PTSD and and alcholic currently sober for 10 years. I speak from a position of having been there done that. It was not until I decided I wanted better for myself that my circumstances changed slowly for the better. I would wager that the average person on this site would not know real hardship if it slapped them in the face. Also Welfare and Snap should only be used to buy health nutritious food and basic essentials.
If you look around the World socialism is a experiment that has failed in almost every country that it's been tried. Just look at the collapse of the Greek economy.
toomuchbaloney, I usually like your posts. However, you are seriously hung up on the politics of THIRTY years ago. Reagan's been dead for 11 years, okay?!
I am talking about now, when we have more Americans on food stamps than employed full time.
Y'all can keep pretending that the growing dependency culture in this country is not a problem, until the money runs out. I'm done with this thread.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
toomuchbaloney, I usually like your posts. However, you are seriously hung up on the politics of THIRTY years ago. Reagan's been dead for 11 years, okay?!
I am talking about now, when we have more Americans on food stamps than employed full time.
Y'all can keep pretending that the growing dependency culture in this country is not a problem, until the money runs out. I'm done with this thread.
While Reagan has been dead for some time, his ridiculous notions about "welfare queens" and "trickle down economics" are alive and well and are poisoning the political landscape of America at this very moment.
If you would prefer to "be done" with the thread because your notions of where the corruption and fraud lies within the welfare programs lies are not being supported by the facts, that is up to you.
The reality is that more people are on assistance today because of failed policy which caused loss of jobs, loss of wealth (homes/property) for the middle classes, no growth in minimum and middle wages, etc.
Poverty is a complicated issue and it cannot be explained away simply.
Obesity is a problem that is deepest within, but not limited to the poverty stricken communities of this country.
Ignoring that relationship will not lead to comprehensive reform that is destined to be helpful.
The reality is that if people prefer to just step back, check out, and refuse to discuss these issues because the facts and data do not support their beliefs we will never raise the collective consciousness and enlightenment on the topic. Instead, we will continue to demonize the poor and pretend that welfare is what is creating our national debt while making exactly the same poor and ineffective choices as a union of states.
toomuchbaloney, I usually like your posts. However, you are seriously hung up on the politics of THIRTY years ago. Reagan's been dead for 11 years, okay?!
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It doesn't matter... "Reaganomics" collapsed urban communities-and the effects are still rampant today, unfortunately...it augmented the social injustices that were happening already.
I always behoove people to look up "redlining"...economic injustice has continued to be a struggle and in a multi factorial issue, along with health choices and obesity.
Until economic justice prevails, and orange juice and various milks are 99 cents, bread 89 cents and fruits and vegetables 69 cents a lb; and the best food markets in underserved areas and convience stores offer healthy options for less and people having access to nutritional education-to the point that nurses and/or nutritionists shopping with families and helping them plan foods at least a six month span (it takes 21 days to break a habit, so why don't we jack up the days a bit to make a healthy habit) and THEN people continue to engage in healthy habits, THEN I'll complain.
It doesn't matter... "Reaganomics" collapsed urban communities-and the effects are still rampant today, unfortunately...it augmented the social injustices that were happening already.
I always behoove people to look up "redlining"...economic injustice has continued to be a struggle and in a multi factorial issue, along with health choices and obesity.
Until economic justice prevails, and orange juice and various milks are 99 cents, bread 89 cents and fruits and vegetables 69 cents a lb; and the best food markets in underserved areas and convience stores offer healthy options for less and people having access to nutritional education-to the point that nurses and/or nutritionists shopping with families and helping them plan foods at least a six month span (it takes 21 days to break a habit, so why don't we jack up the days a bit to make a healthy habit) and THEN people continue to engage in *healthy habits, THEN I'll complain.
Specializes in Case mgmt., rehab, (CRRN), LTC & psych.
I am talking about now, when we have more Americans on food stamps than employed full time.
Millions of food stamp recipients are employed full-time. They work at low-wage employers such as WalMart, Target, McDonald's, and some healthcare settings.
Some of the CNAs and housekeeping staff at my workplace receive food stamps because, due to family size, they fall below the poverty line in spite of their full time employment statuses.
Millions of food stamp recipients are employed full-time. They work at low-wage employers such as WalMart, Target, McDonald's, and some healthcare settings.
Some of the CNAs and housekeeping staff at my workplace receive food stamps because, due to family size, they fall below the poverty line in spite of their full time employment statuses.
And millions will stay on food stamps unless wages improve...but that's a whole thread altogether.
Specializes in Psych, Addictions, SOL (Student of Life).
Until economic justice prevails, and orange juice and various milks are 99 cents, bread 89 cents and fruits and vegetables 69 cents a lb
How much do you think it costs to produce these foods in America - Yes I can buy ingredients and make a loaf of bread for about a dollar and I grow 90% of my fruits and vegtables. However in drought stricken California I am only allowed to water for 10 minutes every other day. It takes an 10th of an acre of land to produce enough grain to make a loaf of bread. That grain must be harvested, washed milled into flour and sent to a commmericial bakery where a Union baker gets paid $18.00'hour to bake it then the bread has to be loaded on a truck )with gas over $4.00 a gallon and trucked to a store who must pay Union wages to the stockers and checker's who sell it to you. And you think that bread should sell for 89 cents. What planet are you living on? The current economic crises in this country was not caused by Reagan in fact Reagan turned around one of the worst recession of that time and handed over a flourishing economy to the next president. The current decline started when Clinton deregulated the mortgage industry making homeownership possible for people who had no business buying a home. Then again under Clinton policies those same people were able to finance upto 150% of the homes value. The fact that iit all collasped under Bush who was facing the most horrific terrorist threat our Country has ever faced does not make it a conservative problem. Besides wasn't the great Barack H Obama supposed to fix all this. He's been in office long enough that he can no longer blame the country's woes on Republicans.
Back during the Clinton administration when there was a over surplus of Dairy products - farmers were paid to kill their cows. The carcasses of those cows was not used for any purpose but ground into compost. Right now under Obama and Governor Moonbeam (brown) farmers in California are being paid pennies on the dollar to plow under their crops including established fruit orchards that will take decades to grow back, and you want fruits a vegetables for 69 cents a pound. You can't grow a single strawberry for 69 cents. This is the magical thinking of preschool.
This thread started out asking if obesity was a choice or a lifestyle? It was never supposed to be about the economic woes of the nation. The fact is some people are fat because in spite of the exercise and good diet they have not won the metabolism lottery. Others are fat because they don't care to be any different. This is not a problem to be blamed on society. Individuals have to take responsibilty for themselves. If the only think a person on snap could purchase with their benefit was friut, vegetables and protien I guarantee they would be healthier.
How much do you think it costs to produce these foods in America - Yes I can buy ingredients and make a loaf of bread for about a dollar and I grow 90% of my fruits and vegtables. However in drought stricken California I am only allowed to water for 10 minutes every other day. It takes an 10th of an acre of land to produce enough grain to make a loaf of bread. That grain must be harvested, washed milled into flour and sent to a commmericial bakery where a Union baker gets paid $18.00'hour to bake it then the bread has to be loaded on a truck )with gas over $4.00 a gallon and trucked to a store who must pay Union wages to the stockers and checker's who sell it to you. And you think that bread should sell for 89 cents. What planet are you living on? The current economic crises in this country was not caused by Reagan in fact Reagan turned around one of the worst recession of that time and handed over a flourishing economy to the next president. The current decline started when Clinton deregulated the mortgage industry making homeownership possible for people who had no business buying a home. Then again under Clinton policies those same people were able to finance upto 150% of the homes value. The fact that iit all collasped under Bush who was facing the most horrific terrorist threat our Country has ever faced does not make it a conservative problem. Besides wasn't the great Barack H Obama supposed to fix all this. He's been in office long enough that he can no longer blame the country's woes on Republicans.
Back during the Clinton administration when there was a over surplus of Dairy products - farmers were paid to kill their cows. The carcasses of those cows was not used for any purpose but ground into compost. Right now under Obama and Governor Moonbeam (brown) farmers in California are being paid pennies on the dollar to plow under their crops including established fruit orchards that will take decades to grow back, and you want fruits a vegetables for 69 cents a pound. You can't grow a single strawberry for 69 cents. This is the magical thinking of preschool.
This thread started out asking if obesity was a choice or a lifestyle? It was never supposed to be about the economic woes of the nation. The fact is some people are fat because in spite of the exercise and good diet they have not won the metabolism lottery. Others are fat because they don't care to be any different. This is not a problem to be blamed on society. Individuals have to take responsibilty for themselves. If the only think a person on snap could purchase with their benefit was friut, vegetables and protien I guarantee they would be healthier.
Hppy
I don't know what you are inferring from my post, but you have missed the mark and I believe some emotion is injected about your own trials of being obese but are discounting the mounting evidence and holistic assessment that needs to occur for many of the underserved.
Unfortunately, health disparities and economics DO play a role, whether you agree or not; as nurses, we look at the HOLISTIC part of what our patients face.
As someone who has had welfare and have worked in all my 10 years if nursing in a urban area with a high poverty rate and lack of economic support, economics plays a HUGE part, couple that with genetics and you have a recipe for disaster; I will say that my area isn't the fattest in the nation, but they could improve; but it's going to take more than just losing weight, especially when you count the other outlying factors that are real in an everyday struggle; if it really was as simple as your posit- would we really be having this conversation?
I don't know what you are inferring from my post, but you have missed the mark and I believe some emotion is injected about your own trials of being obese but are discounting the mounting evidence and holistic assessment that needs to occur for many of the underserved.
Unfortunately, health disparities and economics DO play a role, whether you agree or not; as nurses, we look at the HOLISTIC part of what our patients face.
As someone who has had welfare and have worked in all my 10 years if nursing in a urban area with a high poverty rate and lack of economic support, economics plays a HUGE part, couple that with genetics and you have a recipe for disaster; I will say that my area isn't the fattest in the nation, but they could improve; but it's going to take more than just losing weight, especially when you count the other outlying factors that are real in an everyday struggle; if it really was as simple as your posit- would we really be having this conversation?
I'll wait.
And continue to wait on all those aspects to fall into place in my OP; there are too many factors that will not be solved on this post.
toomuchbaloney
16,109 Posts
The notion that millions of lazy losers who are "content to live off of the taxpayer dime" is costing you or me or any other tax payer gazillions of dollars is a lie that was begun under Ronnie Raygun. In reality, it is pennies compared to corporate welfare and other budgetary items.
The Surprising Truth Behind Tax Day: Where Your Taxes Go | BillMoyers.com