Nursing shortages, Baby boomers and the immigrant nurse Part 2

[madwife2002]

Update on Nursing shortages, Baby boomers and the immigrant nurse

The opinion is almost equally divided between the main two options - please review poll thread for further information.

Now what we really should investigate is when we say 'foreign nurses' who are we really referring to? Are we referring to Green Card holder? Or are we referring to foreign born and trained RN's? Is there a difference I hear you contemplating? Well I could predict that this would alter the opinions because those who are finger pointing may well have Green Cards themselves, even though they have probably lived for most of their lives in the USA, or have parents who remain legal Aliens and not US citizens.

Nobody complains about legal Aliens who are not RN's in the same way yet the majority and I say majority loosely because it is my opinion that almost 100% of nurses in the US are either 'legal aliens' or are already 'US Citizens, the exception these days are some Canadians who are still on working visas.

I am pretty sure somebody will prove me wrong, but hey that is the fun of these blog's and hopefully initiates some good conversation in a safe environment.

It is also my belief that the ones who criticize have no to little complaints against British, Canadian, Australian, and any other English as a first language speaking RN? The main complaints seem to be against Filipinos, Indian, and any RN who has an accent. Ok now I will bow my head and wait!

So I leave you with a thought If you are a Green Card Holder who trains in the US to be a RN, are you taking the jobs from the American Nurses or is this acceptable????

[DEALYNSO]

I agree I failed to proof my response prior to posting. Of course after reading a lot of postings I see that I am not the only one.

I work with Nurses and MA's who are not from the United States originally and are bilingual. We have a considerable Hispanic population in our community and these ladies are very valuable to our patients and staff.. They are not imported staff brought in to fill a space but highly qualified members who can communicate proficiently in two languages and perform their job tasks.

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[leqwedz]

after spending almost half an hr catching up with the thread.i feel short of words.being that all the words i had in mind have already been used more than once in this forum.so to top it off...I'm sticking to my gins..foreign or not,we all agree to some point..there's a place for all of us in this wonderful abducted place.(AMERICA)where else to you find very honest people like this.i love this.keep up the thread going.I'm a green card holder soon getting my nationalization citizen in one month..please don't count me on the Americans side..lol..i'll still be a foreghner with social security when i get old..lol..lol..lol

[paddlelady, BSN, RN]

"I noticed that no one seems to talk about all the LPN's who have been pushed-out of the hospitals and other acute care settings as a result of the 'domino effect' of imported nurses and hospitals seeking so-called "magnate status." The side effect for new LPN's like myself (a baby-boomer who went to nursing school after retirement) is that we never were able to benefit from that all important first year of hospital experience after graduation. Instead, with not much less training than an RN, have been relegated to pill pushing in nursing homes. Yet, I don't see too many accelerated LPN to RN programs which would greatly reduce the so-called nursing shortage and link the career ladder between CNA and RN which is where I beleive many of the LPN's started from. Any thoughts?"

I wouldnt feel bad about being relegated to "pill pushing." Passing meds is a trained skill and not just anyone can pass meds safely and watch for side effects esp in the geriatric setting. Working in a nursing home should be an honour to work with those folks who have a whole lifetime behind them. Most of them may have stories to tell. They are human beings and need the respect to be cared for properly. Geriatrics is a speciatlity and you need to know how to deal with that patient population. So do not berated the service that you provide. Have pride in what you do. Continue to learn .There are accelerated RN courses. You can search for them on the internet.

Regards

Paddlelady

[madwife2002, BSN, RN]

Something similar happened in the UK back in the 80's we had SEN's who trained for 2 years and RN's who trained for 3 years. The powers that be decided that SEN's should be phased out and RN's should be the only nurses working within the acute hospital enviroment, they did not force them to do the 18months conversion course but they made it more and more difficult for them to progress and as they left or converted they were not replaced by SEN'S.

So very quickly nurses converted to RN's status, and hospitals had no SEN's.

Training courses to become a SEN were stopped by the early 90's.

Obviously it is different here in the US because you all have to pay large money to become a RN where as the UK you really dont have to pay any money it is funded by the government as it is a socialised medicine country, so financially it is easier. You also get paid a stipend of aprox $1000 a month during training, a little more if you are older. I could write more about this but maybe I will leave it for a future blog entry.

I respect everybodies views on foreign nurses, however during the course of my research I believe the problem is not with importing nurses from foreign countries as they account for aprox 3.5% of the whole nursing population and if you read my entire blog you will find my reference for this. So it may seem foreigners are stealing nursing jobs they are few and far between. In my hospital I am one of 4 british nurses in the whole hospital, and a couple of them are now US citizens. There are several other foreign nurses from other countries but I can assure you we are few.

As a nursing community I believe we should stick together and encourage changes within our hospital environment. Here in the US we are starting to lag behind other civilised countries where nurses are at the forefront of nursing care and practice. If we spend more of our time looking to improve our working conditions, quality of care delivered to our pts, and being supportive of our fellow workers we could be a powerful force.

[runningnaruto]

My opinion on "foreign nurses" are those who trained in other countries and just came to the States for less than a year. I think hospitals should really stop hiring foreign nurses because they can pay them less wage, which saves $ for the hospital. It's bad on the nursing profession because people will think anybody can do nursing job. ( in some country, their nurses are not up to US stander, they just take care of ADLs and no critical thinking).

[SmithParker]

Are you serious that nurses are in shortage? I know of so many nurses who are looking for jobs....how do they find a job? any advice?

[CamelleLPN]

Foreign nurses are awesome! Okay, they went here in America to have a better life and good life so they can support their family back home. I will give you a scenario. Are you going to hire the bilingual person with a good english or a person that has "EXCELLENT english accent?? Eventhough how good your english is but the most important is what you have inside your brain. The knowledge and wisdom how to prioritize a patient. That's why I adore those nurses. They are my inspiration. English is my second language. But guess what I don't care if sometimes my grammar is wrong as long as I know in my heart and my mind that I have the knowledge and strength to work as a nurse. I am 18 and work as an LPN. I graduated LPN when I was 17. We didn't steal anything from the Americans, all we have is the knowledge that we have.

-Camelle

[vnagy0301]

give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses longing to be free..."

if you don't recognize this quote....shame on you....it is inscribed in our statue of liberty which stands so proudly in ny harbor and welcomed so many immigrants in the early 1900's. they (we) have never stopped coming to the us of a for freedom and the pursuit of happiness. when did we draw the line? everyone can belong here if they wish it.... it is what america is all about.

when did we become a nation of "us" vs "them". we are all immigrants of this land...unless you are native american that is... and even they most likely came from somewhere else.

i was born here, my mother was too, but my grandparents came in thru elis island and tampa. i still believe in the land of the free and the home of the brave. there is no where else like it on earth!

virginia

[GiGiOm]

Well, when you get right down to it, with the exception of Native Americans, we are all immigrants to the States. I have never thought it was acceptable to mistreat people from other countries who come over here looking for a way to make a living. I work with a lot of Philippino nurses, and they have proven themselves to be an asset to our workplace. At one time, nurses from other countries helped fill staff shortages because fewer people were enrolling in nursing schools. We shouldn't blame foreign-born nurses for "taking an American's job". Historically, that's always been a knee-jerk reaction in times of economic strife. We have to look at things from a perspective of abundance rather than a perspective of scarcity. Even now. Maybe especially now.

[caycay]

My opinion on "foreign nurses" are those who trained in other countries and just came to the States for less than a year. I think hospitals should really stop hiring foreign nurses because they can pay them less wage, which saves $ for the hospital. It's bad on the nursing profession because people will think anybody can do nursing job. ( in some country, their nurses are not up to US stander, they just take care of ADLs and no critical thinking).

I do believe in your first sentence that its not a good thing to go abroad and work without proper training from your own country. I'm a Filipino. I get paid how many years of working experience I had, I have my 401K and I get the same benefits as what US nurses get. FYI, we have a 4yr nursing degree and I know I can do nursing job whatever US nurses can do here without any difficulty at all. In every country they have different standards (is that what you mean?). I have worked in Ireland as well and they have different standards too. US has different one as well. Its just how you would adjust to the environment and get used to it. But the one I will disagree on you most is by saying that we don't have critical thinking. How in the world we would be able to pass the NCLEX in the frist place if we don't have that? What do you mean we just take care of ADL? I work in the OR and I use my head. Honey, you don't know what you're saying.

[Safe_Passage]

I am a Filipino Nurse and here is my take regarding this topic. Nationality does not play a part when we talk about competency. Nursing is a an even playing field. We foreign nurses do not take away jobs from Americans much less are we paid lower than you. We came here because your government deemed it necessary to hire foreign nurses because of a "shortage", a problem that may be perceived, imagined, or an actual reality. For a foreign nurse to be granted a US RN license is not easy. We have to pass gruelling exams to prove our theoretical competency before we can even be issued a Visa Screen. So when someone talks about foreign education being not par with US education, I think your opinion is baseless. The credential evaluation services here in the US clearly stated that our BSN program is at par with the US BSN program.

Now let's talk about bedside skills. Did you know that in the Philippines our experience is much more varied than what you have here at bedside? We can take care of any patients on the floor..pediatrics, med-surg, ob-gyn, hospice and at times even vented patients because our ICU could not accommodate any more of this critical cases due to bed unavailability. Let me mention too that we have compassionate and emphatic hearts that are necessary for patient's recovery.

We are not a burden in this country. We work hard to earn every cent that is credited in our paychecks and we pay our taxes just like any other working American does.

Peace.

[Newbie89]

This is only my 4th year of practice after graduating in the US. I am a recent American who was born in the Philippines. I was not an RN in the Philippines. RN is my second career in the US after I was laid off at age 40 in another profession.

The accent, if heavy, does play into communication. Regardless of our accent or country of origin, we should work on our communication skills.

There is nursing shortage. But, I believe a open position should be offered to an American local first before being filled by a foreign contract worker - nothing to do with accent.