Nursing shortages, Baby boomers and the immigrant nurse Part 2
It has been a couple of weeks since we reviewed the ongoing poll about foreign trained nurses in the USA and the trend towards blaming immigrant nurses for taking the jobs which should or should not belong to American Nurses.
The opinion is almost equally divided between the main two options - please review poll thread for further information.
Now what we really should investigate is when we say 'foreign nurses' who are we really referring to? Are we referring to Green Card holder? Or are we referring to foreign born and trained RN's? Is there a difference I hear you contemplating? Well I could predict that this would alter the opinions because those who are finger pointing may well have Green Cards themselves, even though they have probably lived for most of their lives in the USA, or have parents who remain legal Aliens and not US citizens.
Nobody complains about legal Aliens who are not RN's in the same way yet the majority and I say majority loosely because it is my opinion that almost 100% of nurses in the US are either 'legal aliens' or are already 'US Citizens, the exception these days are some Canadians who are still on working visas.
I am pretty sure somebody will prove me wrong, but hey that is the fun of these blog's and hopefully initiates some good conversation in a safe environment.
It is also my belief that the ones who criticize have no to little complaints against British, Canadian, Australian, and any other English as a first language speaking RN? The main complaints seem to be against Filipinos, Indian, and any RN who has an accent. Ok now I will bow my head and wait!
So I leave you with a thought If you are a Green Card Holder who trains in the US to be a RN, are you taking the jobs from the American Nurses or is this acceptable????
I was born in The Netherlands to American parernts, which afforded me automatic citizenship. I carried dual citizenship and remained in Holland through college, then moved to America to work in the Financial Industry. Finally after finishing and becoming an RN and working in the field for about 4 years, I was contacted by a travel nurse agency to work in Holland. Seems American trained nurses are welcomed in foreign countries as well....
I am staying put.. this is home now.
Yes, it is difficult for new grads to get those optimal jobs.. like circumstances in the past, jobs may not be where you want them to be, you may just have to travel to get that entry job and then be more selective.
Interesting discussion. Definitely a rabble rousing conversation. We have some posts that are eluding to xenophobia, some claiming ethnocentrism, some playing the victim card, some saying americans are slow with nothing to live for, and some posts tip toeing around an opinion (my self included).
Interesting, very interesting, my dear watson. :)
Will follow this thread, Hope it gets truthful and juicy! :)
The nursing shortage is largely manufactured by hospitals, who are trying to acheive a magnate status (we have only RNs) and states who go along with it. There are plenty of LPNs, citizens, who could fill those slots easily and quickly, if everyone would work together. A short but intense program to bring LPNs to ADN status would begin the process. Something like 10 months, would probably do it. It would allow those who want to go on to finish with a BSN while being able to earn an supportable income. In 5 to 7 years, the "shortage" would be much lessened. Bring current LPN programs to whatever the current "ideal" is. It would be a fix that could be modified over time so that every RN is on the same page. I wouldn't have a problem with something like this.
As to foreign born nurses, many of the ones I've met are from the Phillipines and other such countries and they come here on a contract, so they're legal, but with no thought of becoming a citizen. They work, send money home, and save to retire at home, where they'll be wealthy. They get all of the benefits with no buy-in. They can even buy property, sometimes, seemingly much easier than citizens. I've even met a fair amount of doctor-nurses, who are not interested in being doctors in the U.S., they work as nurses-this applies to Filipinos and Indians. I know their countries are poor but....
If I am a nurse manager, I will hire an experienced nurse who can speak and understand English whether its her first or second language. I don't also care if she's a foreign trained or US trained as long as she brings her knowledge and skills at work and uses a lot of common sense. That's what you called not being racist
I've even met a fair amount of doctor-nurses, who are not interested in being doctors in the U.S., they work as nurses-this applies to Filipinos and Indians. I know their countries are poor but....
(It's not that they "are not interested" in practicing as physicians here -- it's because the US medical community has had the good sense to make it extremely difficult for foreign-educated physicians to ever get licensed in the US. Foreign-educated physicians find it much simpler to train as RNs (there are even some special programs set up in other countries to facilitate this) and get licensed here, and, in many cases (depending on where they're from, I mean) they can still make much more $$ as an RN in the US than they could ever make as a physician in their own country.)
You are very, very right, and my taxes pay for it, and I am not happy. Don't tell me it isn't happening (not you, the others reading this), I work in a county hospital, and I KNOW who I take care of, and who pays for it. I wish you luck in getting your green card, and in your career. It does seem like we encourage (our gov) the ones that aren't being productive, and thwart those that are.
Specializes in anesthesia, nursing labor research, philosophy.
I also know that here in Southern CA, some hospitals, like Huntington are receiving 600 applications per new graduate nurse position. We are in a recession, so I can see how the immigrant nurse can be made out to be the scapegoat. However, I say buy American--Nationalism does NOT mean racism. If you are naturalized you are an American, if you have a green card, become a citizen if you can. What is wrong with a little national protectionism when the economy is sour? I do not think that their is anything wrong with that. My state's unemployment rate is 16%, BUY AMERICAN!
I don't think California's unemployment rate is 16%. The most recent article I could find (from today) states that it is nearly 12%
Finally, there are some people who will make the whole argument out to be a racist thing, I really do not think that it is. If you were a nurse manager hiring a new graduate nurse, would you: A) Hire the nurse educated in the US with English as there first language? B) Hire the nurse educated in the US with English as there second language? C) Hire the nurse educated in Europe, who speaks fluent spanish with english as their second language or D) Hire the nurse educated in China with english as their second language?
Who would you hire out the the 600 applicants? My guess is that you would hire A or B.
Well, then there's no problem. The "immigrant" nurses that some in this discussion posit are less qualified won't be taking up the jobs... So it's a moot point.
Some of the best nurses I work with were born in other countries, who have either become residents with green cards or naturalized citizens. Some of the best nurses I ever worked with were LPN's, too.
As long as my fellow nurses and techs work together, work as a team, assist each other to give our patients the very best care, I'm happy to work with them. I don't think that these nurses or techs are being brought over to take away jobs from American nurses. They are being hired because the US doesn't have enough nurses. If you look at the age demographics, there were plenty of nurses in the boomer generation, and after us, more women got interested in law school, MBA school, med schools, etc. Women were ENCOURAGED to move out of the so called pink collar jobs; nursing, teaching, secretaries or waitresses. And in droves the next genereations stayed way the $#%^$ away from a job as tough and unforgiving(and poorly paying) as teaching or nursing, let alone the other two.
We wanted equal pay for equal jobs; so women took to the same jobs/careers as men. There is now a large demographic gap in nursing that covers over a twenty to thirty year period. So the supply of nurses simply went down in response to more women finding different careers.
It seems that with the current attitudes towards immigration in general, Americans are becoming xenophobic again.
Basically, nursing is a tough job to do for a long period of time. Many nurses drop by the wayside because they simply can't do it for one more minute. They become real estate agents, lawyers, go into Public Health as Master's prepared folks, stay home to raise kids(lucky them), or just simply would rather do anything rather than work as nurses. So we have a shortage; and if someone else wants to fill that open position, more power to them.
As to competency, I worked with an Irish RN who got her training during "the Troubles". She was the best trauma nurse I ever worked with. I've worked with American nurses who just didn't get it, could never quite catch on to whatever system was in place. Competency has little to do with nationality, especially if everyone went to nursing school, then has to take the NCLEX and pass it like anyone else in the US. Experience, common sense and a sense of committment to patients, families and each other are what make a good nurse.
Specializes in anesthesia, nursing labor research, philosophy.
I noticed that no one seems to talk about all the LPN's who have been pushed-out of the hospitals and other acute care settings as a result of the 'domino effect' of imported nurses and hospitals seeking so-called "magnate status." The side effect for new LPN's like myself (a baby-boomer who went to nursing school after retirement) is that we never were able to benefit from that all important first year of hospital experience after graduation. Instead, with not much less training than an RN, have been relegated to pill pushing in nursing homes. Yet, I don't see too many accelerated LPN to RN programs which would greatly reduce the so-called nursing shortage and link the career ladder between CNA and RN which is where I beleive many of the LPN's started from. Any thoughts?
Here in Southern California there are multiple LPN to RN programs. Also, LPNs can apply to any regular RN program if they are interested in becoming an RN.
I'm a Filipino. I came from a third world country where they say "poor country" but not all people there are poor. In my case, I don't send money home. My dad who is a surgeon can feed my family, were able send me and my sisters to a private school, etc. He didn't even thought of becoming a nurse to work in the US. He went back to school to get his master's degree and be a better doctor in the Philippines. He can even come here, spend his money here in the US. I'm just saying this because it's kinda irritating and hurtful to hear that Filipino nurses who are in the US only work just to send and bring money home.
I came here and live here in the US because I love being here. No pollution, no overcrowding and very very hot weather like in the Phils. I can also say I'm safer here compare to my country. I work so hard to have a better life here in the US, buy whatever I want and not to depend from my parents. My husband is now a US Citizen and I'm waiting to become one also. We also pay our taxes and we are not a burden of the US.
Mookie427
26 Posts
I was born in The Netherlands to American parernts, which afforded me automatic citizenship. I carried dual citizenship and remained in Holland through college, then moved to America to work in the Financial Industry. Finally after finishing and becoming an RN and working in the field for about 4 years, I was contacted by a travel nurse agency to work in Holland. Seems American trained nurses are welcomed in foreign countries as well....
I am staying put.. this is home now.
Yes, it is difficult for new grads to get those optimal jobs.. like circumstances in the past, jobs may not be where you want them to be, you may just have to travel to get that entry job and then be more selective.