Failing a student in clinical - page 2
I had a student in the last stretch of clinical before he goes into a preceptored clinical. In the preceptored clinical, they are basically on their own and can ask questions to the preceptor.... Read More
Apr 14, '12Occupation: RN Specialty: ICU ; From: US ; Joined: Sep '08; Posts: 144; Likes: 166Quote from ruby veeeveryone makes mistakes, but the attitude is dangerous. he deserved to fail!
i agree, anyone can have a bad day, and make a mistake. but the sense of entitlement was what struck me. a nursing license can be as dangerous as a loaded gun. any medication given should be treated as if it can kill. i work in icu and i see nurses who have been practicing for 30 years ask someone to check their insulin doses. i had one of my fellow nurses show me a syringe the other day and say "i'm giving 6 units of r". i looked at the syringe, but just before i turned my head back to my charting, out of the corner of my eye, i noticed the big n on the vial. it would have been so simple to miss that. we can't be perfect, but we have to try to be.
i was an older nursing student, and i felt sometimes that the instructors were too easy on the students about following the rules. if they can't follow a simple rule like no cell phones in class, no big, skin tearing engagement rings at clinicals, and save the hot pink "juicy" across your back side for saturday night instead of under your white , then do you really think that person is going to check the 7 rights before giving meds? i say that if they fail to do what is required in clinicals, then they fail. simple as that. pay or no pay. they are not paying for a nursing license, they are paying for the education. if they fail to learn, then so be it. harsh? maybe, but we are in a harsh profession. the md's are not going to coddle them at 3:00am, and the families are not going to coddle them when they feel their loved ones are not getting enough attention. clinicals and precepting is the time they are pedaling with training wheels on, not laying back and being pushed along the path.
Apr 15, '12Occupation: Registered Nurse Specialty: Neuroscience/Brain and Stroke ; From: US ; Joined: Jul '10; Posts: 303; Likes: 226As a student myself, I would be afraid of the caliber of nurses coming out of that school had he not been failed. I understand a mistake, we all make them, but he brushed it aside as if it were something that he shouldn't be bothered with. That is SCARY! He could've killed that patient and he thinks it is ok because "he pays tuition" OMG! Stick to your guns, you did the right thing and the public applauds you for it!
Apr 15, '12Occupation: none Specialty: none ; From: US ; Joined: Dec '03; Posts: 865; Likes: 1,257Quote from Berkshire1995contesting it on what grounds. You did the right thing. The guy was there to learn but also to follow orders. If he wants to be a fool, there is no law against ignorance. Make sure that you keep any record of the incident and you will be fine and he will be out or repeating Nursing school.I had a student in the last stretch of clinical before he goes into a preceptored clinical. In the preceptored clinical, they are basically on their own and can ask questions to the preceptor. Graduation is in June. This student read an order for insulin wrong and drew up 6 times the ordered dose. The student commented that it seemed like a bit much. I was watching and asked the student to read the order again. He continued to say the wrong dose. I told him he could have killed this patient. The student commented that he is "there to learn, that's why I pay tuition." At this stage of clinical, I find this to be unacceptable and dangerous. I could not pass this student. He had been warned for weeks that he needed to improve. He received weekly written evaluations and we discussed ways to improve. He is now contesting this and feels that I was not fair. Your thoughts?
Apr 15, '12Occupation: Nurse Educator Specialty: 16 year(s) of experience in Gerontological, cardiac, med-surg, peds ; From: US ; Joined: Mar '01; Posts: 12,037; Likes: 6,470Moderator's friendly reminder: Please keep to the topic at hand and avoid personal attacks. Debate the issues, but do not attack another poster. Please also avoid off topic posts which will only derail this thread. All such posts have been and will be removed from the thread. Thank you and carry on.
Apr 15, '12Occupation: nursing Specialty: 36 year(s) of experience ; Joined: Nov '03; Posts: 1,354; Likes: 3,352It is all about the atitiude! This student should have been grateful that he was stopped before giving the incorrect dose.
I feel you were correct!
Apr 15, '12Joined: Aug '10; Posts: 7,236; Likes: 27,963Quote from ruby veei agree with this. he sounds like he doesn't care/doesn't comprehend the gravity of the situation.everyone makes mistakes, but the attitude is dangerous. he deserved to fail!
i had taken a couple semesters off after my freshman year because i wasn't sure if nursing was for me. when i went back, on my first clinical i made a mistake (not a serious one, but still.) i went to my instructor, practically in tears, thinking i was going to get the boot. my instructor was from the old-time nursing program, very grandmotherly. she put her arm around me and said not to worry, everyone makes a mistake at some point.
the difference between my experience and your student's is he seems reckless and arrogant. had i made that kind of mistake, it would have shaken me to the core. i think he needs to be dismissed. he's a menace.
Apr 15, '12Occupation: Assistant Professor Nursing Faculty Specialty: 28 year(s) of experience in Med/Surg, Oncology, IV Therapy ; From: US ; Joined: Jul '08; Posts: 22; Likes: 2As Clinical Faculty it is our job to ethically keep patients safe. In doing so, students must learn the importance of safe medication calculation and safe medication administration. Insulin being a high risk medication and known for medication errors it was vital that you fail this student until he matures and understands the importance of "doing no harm" to patients. Our job as nurses is to keep all patients safe. Safety is key in the nursing profession.
Apr 15, '12Joined: Feb '08; Posts: 5,556; Likes: 15,665Met with a face that went white and an "OMG!! Thank you...I can't believe I did that!" might have met with a totally different outcome. This was not something you did to him. He did it to himself.
Apr 15, '12Specialty: 1 year(s) of experience in LTC ; From: US ; Joined: Mar '09; Posts: 338; Likes: 1,106Quote from DixieleeMy instructor, who I believe has retired now, made it clear that this attitude would get us booted out of the program, no buts about it.The student defiantly told me that SHE was in a BSN program and she would never have to do "aide's work" and she would find an "aide" to do it.
It's a good rule.
Apr 15, '12Joined: Mar '12; Posts: 934; Likes: 1,688I had limited experience in giving medication during nursing school so when I became a licensed RN, that was really the first time I started giving medication and I was very, very paranoid about making a mistake.
New nurses, as you know, sometimes don't know what a large dose "looks" like. In other words, because of inexperience, they don't know that visually, it's a larger amount than normally given.
However, for me, the key difference is that he obviously did not carefully calculate and double check the dose before he drew it up...I am assuming that your school requires students to take a med-math test before they are allowed to administer. If he doesn't take the time to calculate it or tries to 'do it in his head' in clinical, he will absolutely do it in practice....THAT is what makes him dangerous.
Not only that, he didn't even seem to care about the error nor care to check his work when he was clearly instructed to do so.
I would be mortified if I had made an error like that in clinicals.
I am all for changes, but I would have failed him too...mostly for his attitude and not performing due diligence.
Apr 15, '12Joined: Apr '12; Posts: 40; Likes: 18I am in an ADN program and I am flabbergasted at the OP and the comments. This would not fly in my program at all!Last edit by VickyRN on Apr 15, '12 : Reason: offensive comment removed
Apr 15, '12From: US ; Joined: Jan '10; Posts: 221; Likes: 189Quote from reagansmNot all BSNs are like this person. I think it all depends on the person, their maturity, and the values of their program. I have worked in healthcare before my bachelor's and my school and professors are very clear that we are in no way better.I am in an ADN program and I am flabbergasted at the OP and the comments. This would not fly in my program at all!
I deliver meal trays at the hospital. A student from a local college (not BSN) approaches me with a dirty tray in her had, literally drops it into the med prep station counter in front of me, and says "Get rid of this." And walks away. If that had been me, my professor would have skinned me alive.
Anyway, this person the OP is talking about obviously has a bad attitude and would be dangerous in a practice setting regardless of their level of education.Last edit by VickyRN on Apr 15, '12 : Reason: quoting offensive comment which was removed to avoid ADN versus BSN derail of thread
Apr 15, '12Joined: Mar '06; Posts: 3,900; Likes: 6,769It seems to me the school has a simple decision. Either they condone that student's performance or they don't. I suspect as long as you are not willing to change your objective description of the problem, the school will not want to accept the liability of passing that student.