Nursing diagnosis "altered energy field"

rngreenhorn · Feb 1, 2006

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/ttresponse.html
Ok, here is a response from some of the critiques of the JAMA article.
If anyone know of a response to that response, post.
On another note, the editor of JAMA who published the article was fired.
Look at http://www.csicop.org/articles/19990121-jama/

I told myself I was done with this subject, but here I go again.

Anyway, here is a "response to that response" with a scientific study involving TT healing of wounds.

http://www.wesleyan.edu/synthesis/FRIDAY/frifinal/artdm.htm#science

Found this to be an interesting read. Although I really should get off my butt and go for a hike or something.

rngreenhorn · Feb 1, 2006

World Health Organization can help you here as well as journals on chronic diseases. Yes, Western medicine has failed big time. Think of all the chronic diseases...arthritis, hypertension, diabetes...and then ask yourself "why are they chronic?"

I had the unfortunate experience of working at Mcdonald's and a Wal-mart super center before becoming a nurse. It doesn't take a rocket scientist or a TT practitioner to discover why Western medicine as failed in these chronic diseases.

If one ingests a regular diet of "extra-crispy-McWhopper-belle-grande-jacks", one is bound to absorb to much energy. Also a regular diet of overly-packaged preservative filled foods (as sold in Wal-mart) can not be healthy. From a scientific view, our bodies are just not designed to metabolize this junk.

Do a web search of "diabetes in the Pima Indians of Arizona" to back up this point.

I guess I'd have to agree with zenman on this point. I'd imagine that an Eastern oriented world view would predipose a person from skipping this crap for more natural healthy foods. I mean most of the hippies I know are pretty darn healthy people.

Anyway, since I have a day off, I think I really will go for a hike.... It probably wouldn't hurt to work off some of my extra energy.

SFCardiacRN · Feb 2, 2006

Originally Posted by zenman
World Health Organization can help you here as well as journals on chronic diseases. Yes, Western medicine has failed big time. Think of all the chronic diseases...arthritis, hypertension, diabetes...and then ask yourself "why are they chronic?"

I don't see these as a failure of western medicine. Prior to the discovery of insulin, no one lived long enough to experience the debilitating effects of poorly controlled diabetes. Sure, the disease is horrible but certainly better than a quick death from coma. Beta blockers and Ace inhibitors have also greatly extended the life expectancy of people with HTN. In hospitals, we see the worst of the worst but our rising life expectancy is proof of the efficacy of western medicine.

danu3 · Feb 2, 2006

In hospitals, we see the worst of the worst but our rising life expectancy is proof of the efficacy of western medicine.

Good point. Didn't thing about that one. About our life expectancy is getting longer and longer... at least in the developed countries.

chadash · Feb 2, 2006

When skimming greenhorn’s article, I noticed a reference to reiki healing.

I had no idea there was a connection with reiki and therapeutic touch.

I remain convinced that the final verdict on TT will be best determined by honest scientific trial. I would assert that anything less than the scrutiny given to new drugs would not be an honest test.

A purely anecdotal concern: I had a patient I assisted in caring for, for a little more than year who was a reiki healer. Her husband was also and was a real proselytizer. They were wonderful people and I loved them like family, and was there until the end. I can only say that there was such sadness as the lack of results from their firm belief in this method became more and more evident to them as the health situation progressed. Both of them are gone now, truly in an untimely way, and I am comforted by the fact that at the end the husband dealt with his disappointment in this method, and found hope in something greater. This one experience is not a true test of the method, there would have to be a clinical study involving a number of people. It just struck me, oh dear, this was so sad.

SFCardiacRN · Feb 2, 2006

Chadash, this is what really upsets me. I see patients in horrible preventable situations due to alternative medicine. We did a radical mastectomy on a patient with an egg sized tumor protruding through her breast skin. I asked the surgeon how it had gotten so large. He told me he had biopsied it over two years previous but she chose "traditional healing" methods to save her breast. This patients 1 year survival rate was now less than 5%. A lumpectomy done 2 years previous would have had a 90% 5 year survival rate.

Josh L.Ac. · Feb 2, 2006

Chadash, this is what really upsets me. I see patients in horrible preventable situations due to alternative medicine. We did a radical mastectomy on a patient with an egg sized tumor protruding through her breast skin. I asked the surgeon how it had gotten so large. He told me he had biopsied it over two years previous but she chose "traditional healing" methods to save her breast. This patients 1 year survival rate was now less than 5%. A lumpectomy done 2 years previous would have had a 90% 5 year survival rate.

And I see patients that have ran through the entire list of possible conventional interventions for various diseases with no success that get better after a month of acupuncture and Chinese herbal medicine. So what's your point? No modality works 100%. A skeptic cannot dismiss positive anectodal evidence because it supports something they disagree with and then turn around and accept their own personal negative anectodal evidence on the same topic.

We could turn this into a nice back-and-forth-go-around...discussing the evidence supporting the mechanisms of neuroanatomical acupuncture is fun for me. Or I could post the article from JAMA that came out a few years ago that discussed how many people die from conventional medicine. You could respond by posting studies about how various CAM therapies are bunk, then I could respond that lumping all CAM therapies together is a mistake and BLAH BLAH BLAH. But engaging in this activity would be a strawman anyway (and was an example of a strawman - I love irony).

When it comes down to it, it is the patient's choice which way they want to go (regardless of whether or not we think we know better).

Well, at least it is their choice for now.

[/thread derail]

chadash · Feb 2, 2006

And I see patients that have ran through the entire list of possible conventional interventions for various diseases with no success that get better after a month of acupuncture and Chinese herbal medicine. So what's your point? No modality works 100%. A skeptic cannot dismiss positive anectodal evidence because it supports something they disagree with and then turn around and accept their own personal negative anectodal evidence on the same topic.
We could turn this into a nice back-and-forth-go-around...discussing the evidence supporting the mechanisms of neuroanatomical acupuncture is fun for me. Or I could post the article from JAMA that came out a few years ago that discussed how many people die from conventional medicine. You could respond by posting studies about how various CAM therapies are bunk, then I could respond that lumping all CAM therapies together is a mistake and BLAH BLAH BLAH. But engaging in this activity would be a strawman anyway (and was an example of a strawman - I love irony).
When it comes down to it, it is the patient's choice which way they want to go (regardless of whether or not we think we know better).
Well, at least it is their choice for now.
[/thread derail]

Yes, it is the patients choice, and I hope it will always be.

But we are not discussing patient choice, but rather how you all as healthcare professionals determine what is valid, what is efficacious....what procedures to present to your patients.

I never said anything to persuade my patients that reiki healing was not a good thing in any way (no subtle comments, nothing...it was not my right), and in my scope of practice what I could promote was very limited, only NA stuff like: she needs turned every two hours at least, let me discuss her diet with the nurse....is she showing signs of discomfort...

You guys are nurses. I cannot stress enough, knowing and communicating sound and proven therapies is a must.... we are obligated to only promote that which has been tested and found valid. If we approach a patient theoretical treatments, we must present them as such. Hope is wonderful, false hope can be devastating.

My father was had his back "adjusted" for a full year by a chiropractor before he sought help from his regular doctor. He was gone in a week from liver cancer.

Josh L.Ac. · Feb 2, 2006

Yes, it is the patients choice, and I hope it will always be.
But we are not discussing patient choice, but rather how you all as healthcare professionals determine what is valid, what is efficacious....what procedures to present to your patients.
I never said anything to persuade my patients that reiki healing was not a good thing in any way (no subtle comments, nothing...it was not my right), and in my scope of practice what I could promote was very limited, only NA stuff like: she needs turned every two hours at least, let me discuss her diet with the nurse....is she showing signs of discomfort...
You guys are nurses. I cannot stress enough, knowing and communicating sound and proven therapies is a must.... we are obligated to only promote that which has been tested and found valid. If we approach a patient theoretical treatments, we must present them as such. Hope is wonderful, false hope can be devastating.
My father was had his back "adjusted" for a full year by a chiropractor before he sought help from his regular doctor. He was gone in a week from liver cancer.

That's rough and my condolences. My mother is dying because of her trust of conventional medicine doctors combined with her apathy towards her own health. I'm not sure about you, but I went through that phase were I second-guessed my interactions with her...should I have been more direct and aggressive with her treatment? In the end, now I just try to keep my mouth shut and let her enjoy playing with her grandson.

But back on-topic, I agree that more should be done to determine the efficacy of various integrative and CAM therapies. Unfortunately, modalities like acupuncture don't fit well into the current investigative research models, i.e., double-blind randomized placebo controlled studies. But that is a topic for another discussion...

BTW, I'm not a nurse. I have master's in acupuncture and I start an accelerated BSN in August 06. So soon I will be.

chadash · Feb 2, 2006

BTW, I'm not a nurse. I have master's in acupuncture and I start an accelerated BSN in August 06. So soon I will be.

Good luck with your BSN! You'll do great.

SFCardiacRN · Feb 2, 2006

And I see patients that have ran through the entire list of possible conventional interventions for various diseases with no success that get better after a month of acupuncture and Chinese herbal medicine. So what's your point?

I am well aware of the disease that can only be cured by accupuncture and herbals. It is called hypochondria.

Josh L.Ac. · Feb 3, 2006

I am well aware of the disease that can only be cured by accupuncture and herbals. It is called hypochondria.

Wow, so we can cure hypochondria too? How exciting. We'll just add it to the list found here (and it's an old list):

http://consensus.nih.gov/1997/1997Acupuncture107html.htm

BTW, I rarely talk about the ability to "cure". My post didn't mention the word. Oh, and it's spelled "acupuncture".