Do You Have To Be Religious/Spiritual to be a good Nurse? - page 6

I'm struggling with this to an extent. I go to a deeply religious school and yes, I hate it. At times I feel as though it's a major requirement to be religious in order to function as a nurse and I... Read More

  1. by   GrumpyRN
    Quote from khminh
    Soliloquy, I'm sorry that you had to endure such religious nonsense. I say this as a spiritual person. Honestly, I feel like Christians should not be nurses at all. Period.

    I'm sure you can see their intent from the very beginning.

    Christians treat people well so that people can see Jesus through them. This is a tactic of manipulation. They don't do good for the goodness sake. They do good for a religious ideology. They do good for Jesus, not for patients, not for everyone else but their deity.
    On their lips, Christians say that they should be humble. In action, they want people to see goodness in them so that they will start worshiping Jesus. How insidious that is!

    If I have a choice, I will absolutely pick an atheist nurse, a Wiccan nurse, a Sikh nurse, a Hindu nurse,... over a Christian nurse. I cannot get close to people who in their head have an agenda to convert me by acting cool. I don't want that. I need honesty and total respect. Other religious nurses can do that. Christian nurses??? That never happens.

    Keep it up. I hope you become a nurse by now. This noble profession needs people like you, not preachers in skirts.

    Quote from elkpark
    And how did you develop this power to see into the hearts and minds of other people? Who are you to feel so confident that you understand the motivations of others? Once again, you are making sweeping generalizations about all "Christian nurses," when there is a wide range of approaches to Christianity and service across the US and across the world. I guess I should feel free to hate all Hindus because some Hindus, somewhere, have behaved badly and acted out of motivations I don't approve of. I would never want to have a Hindu nurse, because Hindus kill people who are members of other faiths -- I would be terrified that a Hindu nurse would kill me for not being a Hindu. That is the logic you are applying here, so I'm sure you think it is reasonable to apply the same logic to you and your faith.

    khminh,

    I'm curious as to why you are resurrecting all these old religious threads and inferring (although in this latest one you are right out there) that christians cannot make good nurses. I am completely and utterly atheist and would never make such a general accusation or claim. Elkpark has stated it perfectly. She uses Hindus but perhaps muslims may be a better example.

    If you feel that Buddhists are so good and such nice people can you please explain why the "peaceful" Buddhists are ethnically cleansing the Rohingya peoples in Myanmar?
  2. by   khminh
    Quote from GrumpyRN
    khminh,

    I'm curious as to why you are resurrecting all these old religious threads and inferring (although in this latest one you are right out there) that christians cannot make good nurses. I am completely and utterly atheist and would never make such a general accusation or claim. Elkpark has stated it perfectly. She uses Hindus but perhaps muslims may be a better example.

    If you feel that Buddhists are so good and such nice people can you please explain why the "peaceful" Buddhists are ethnically cleansing the Rohingya peoples in Myanmar?
    Buddhists are not saints. They can be violent. No body gets a pass when it comes to religion. I practice Buddhism, but I don't speak for other Buddhists. If they want to be violent and call themselves Buddhists, that is their choice. I don't have to justify my belief on their behalf.

    Some teachings in Buddhism can cause people to have a pessimistic in life, but it's not enough to invoke violence. I have yet found anything the Buddha said that can support genocide and hatred. I don't hold the Buddha to be a god. If you can find something the Buddha say that is immoral, you can bet that I will abandon that teaching.

    Will a Christian be able to do that? I doubt it.
  3. by   GrumpyRN
    Quote from khminh
    Buddhists are not saints. They can be violent. No body gets a pass when it comes to religion. I practice Buddhism, but I don't speak for other Buddhists. If they want to be violent and call themselves Buddhists, that is their choice. I don't have to justify my belief on their behalf.
    Now you have just admitted that your religion does exactly what you are accusing Christians of doing.

    "One is not called noble who harms living beings. By not harming living beings one is called noble." The Buddha

    This does not explain Myanmar and the Rohynga.
  4. by   khminh
    Quote from GrumpyRN
    Now you have just admitted that your religion does exactly what you are accusing Christians of doing.

    "One is not called noble who harms living beings. By not harming living beings one is called noble." The Buddha

    This does not explain Myanmar and the Rohynga.
    The difference is that Christians do what they do using the Bible to back their action. I haven't seen any Buddhist citing Pali scriptures to justify their action. Same thing with Wiccan, Jain, Sikh, most Jews,... I have seen many Christians and Muslims coerce people into their faith either by words (Christians) or by physical action (Muslims), and they use their books to justify their action.

    Bad ideas are indeed bad, but that doesn't excuse the person who follow them.

    Being a Buddhist, I have to agree with Sam Harris that the most peaceful religious people are Jains. Gandhi, a Hindu, used Jainism principle of nonviolence for his work. I wish I met nurses who are Jains.

    I don't know how much you know about the Bible and Koran. I don't see the reason why I want to be under care of a nurse who sincerely believes that I deserve to burn for eternity or to have my skin peeled off over and over simply for the fact that I don't believe in her deity.

    Hence, I despise Christian nurses a lot when they intend to use their work to recruit souls for Jesus.

    To be fair, in certain sects of Buddhism, it is believed that if people refuse to follow the Buddha's teaching, they would suffer endless reincarnation cycle. Other teachings have truth, but dharma is the only truth. This particular belief, as far as I know, is rare. If a Buddhist nurse harbors this mindset, I wouldn't her to be my caregiver, either.
  5. by   GrumpyRN
    Quote from khminh
    The difference is that Christians do what they do using the Bible to back their action. I haven't seen any Buddhist citing Pali scriptures to justify their action.
    So again I am asking, "what is justifying their actions in Myanmar?"


    Quote from khminh
    Being a Buddhist, I have to agree with Sam Harris that the most peaceful religious people are Jains. Gandhi, a Hindu, used Jainism principle of nonviolence for his work. I wish I met nurses who are Jains.
    No you don't, because an extreme Jain would be unable to function in hospital because antibiotics kill living organisms, as do chemo and radiotherapy.

    Quote from khminh
    I don't know how much you know about the Bible and Koran. I don't see the reason why I want to be under care of a nurse who sincerely believes that I deserve to burn for eternity or to have my skin peeled off over and over simply for the fact that I don't believe in her deity.

    Hence, I despise Christian nurses a lot when they intend to use their work to recruit souls for Jesus.
    Seriously how often is this view expressed? I'm not saying some people don't believe it but it has to be an extreme view. Considering you are of Vietnamese descent surely they would expect you to not be christian so why go to the bother.
    I understand the bible very well - as do most atheists. I have read Sam Harris.



    In UK I have had patients try to give me religious tracts and I have always refused, sometimes with a snort of derision but mostly just a polite refusal.
    A nurse trying to convert a patient would be disciplined and eventually sacked if they did not stop. We have had court cases where nurses who were sacked for praying over or for patients lost their case.
  6. by   WestCoastSunRN
    Quote from khminh
    The difference is that Christians do what they do using the Bible to back their action. I haven't seen any Buddhist citing Pali scriptures to justify their action. Same thing with Wiccan, Jain, Sikh, most Jews,... I have seen many Christians and Muslims coerce people into their faith either by words (Christians) or by physical action (Muslims), and they use their books to justify their action.

    Bad ideas are indeed bad, but that doesn't excuse the person who follow them.

    Being a Buddhist, I have to agree with Sam Harris that the most peaceful religious people are Jains. Gandhi, a Hindu, used Jainism principle of nonviolence for his work. I wish I met nurses who are Jains.

    I don't know how much you know about the Bible and Koran. I don't see the reason why I want to be under care of a nurse who sincerely believes that I deserve to burn for eternity or to have my skin peeled off over and over simply for the fact that I don't believe in her deity.

    Hence, I despise Christian nurses a lot when they intend to use their work to recruit souls for Jesus.

    To be fair, in certain sects of Buddhism, it is believed that if people refuse to follow the Buddha's teaching, they would suffer endless reincarnation cycle. Other teachings have truth, but dharma is the only truth. This particular belief, as far as I know, is rare. If a Buddhist nurse harbors this mindset, I wouldn't her to be my caregiver, either.
    I would be very scared to work under someone like you. The way you talk here in these forums makes me think if you ever got the chance to make policy regarding who could and could not be a nurse, we would have no Christian or Muslim nurses (and docs presumably?) -- or anyone? What about the patients? Are THEY allowed to express (or even quietly believe) what they want?

    Not to mention --- how do your broad-brush assessments/judgements create a fair and equitable work environment that celebrates diversity? Lots of people believe REALLY interesting stuff. Trust me. There are lot of various world-views in and outside of religion.

    Should we police that? Who gets to decide whose ideas are worthy of allowing them to work and contribute to society?
  7. by   khminh
    Quote from WestCoastSunRN
    I would be very scared to work under someone like you. The way you talk here in these forums makes me think if you ever got the chance to make policy regarding who could and could not be a nurse, we would have no Christian or Muslim nurses (and docs presumably?) -- or anyone? What about the patients? Are THEY allowed to express (or even quietly believe) what they want?

    Not to mention --- how do your broad-brush assessments/judgements create a fair and equitable work environment that celebrates diversity? Lots of people believe REALLY interesting stuff. Trust me. There are lot of various world-views in and outside of religion.

    Should we police that? Who gets to decide whose ideas are worthy of allowing them to work and contribute to society?
    Absolutely not.

    I have been an immigrant for 5 years and a naturalized citizen for 10 years. I have never participated in any vote that outlaws Christians practicing their faith at work. NEVER. I'm not an atheist. I don't side with atheists with every issue. Removal of 10 commandment monument at Oklahoma state was unnecessary.

    Vietnamese people typically don't like to involve with law enforcement unless they cannot help it. I'm Vietnamese, and I share similar view. Just because I despise Christians doesn't mean I will seek police help to wipe them out. I will do that myself without a fist. Believe whatever you want and leave me alone. Then we can get along.

    When you begin to tell me how much Jesus loves me, that I will be condemned for eternity without your god, that my spirituality leads me to eternal suffering, you are fair game. I don't care how nicely you express your view. When you invade my personal space, I will dismantle your faith with your own holy book. Same thing with Muslims, Hare Krishna, Sikhs, or even Buddhists. It's that simple.

    Patients can believe whatever they want. If they want my presence while they are praying, if they want me to go to church with them, if they want me to read the Bible with them, I will be honest with them that I don't believe in Yahweh. If they insist that my participation would make them feel better about themselves, I will not say no providing that I don't cross patient-provider boundary.

    Can you do the same for me as a Christian?

    Assuming that you have time and the policy allows it,

    if I ask you to be present when I pray to Bodhisattva,
    if I ask you to go to a shrine with me,
    if I ask you to read the beggar and the Buddha story for me,

    are you going to honor my wish and do that even though you don't believe what I believe?
  8. by   WestCoastSunRN
    [QUOTE

    Patients can believe whatever they want. If they want my presence while they are praying, if they want me to go to church with them, if they want me to read the Bible with them, I will be honest with them that I don't believe in Yahweh. If they insist that my participation would make them feel better about themselves, I will not say no providing that I don't cross patient-provider boundary.

    Can you do the same for me as a Christian?

    Assuming that you have time and the policy allows it,

    if I ask you to be present when I pray to Bodhisattva,
    if I ask you to go to a shrine with me,
    if I ask you to read the beggar and the Buddha story for me,

    are you going to honor my wish and do that even though you don't believe what I believe?[/QUOTE]

    Yes. I adapt in all sorts of ways for the sake of my patients. I think all nurses do this. You seem to be zeroed in on the evangelical aspect of Christianity.

    Conversion, from an orthodox Christian perspective is between God and each person. That's way above my pay grade figuratively and literally.

    That said, I've known "evangelicals" from various belief systems. I recognize this as sincerity in whatever beliefs the person holds and feels compelled to share and gain adherents of. I don't take it personally.
    Interestingly in my part of the country CHristians are in the minority. Atheism/agnosticism is the "new black". Makes me realize what it feels like to be in the minority.

    Sometimes someone preaches to me about whatever political/social/spiritual thing is on their heart. I smile and nod and might say "that's interesting".

    It's not that hard to given others space to believe whatever it is they'd believe. It's no skin off my bones. But just so you know? I've never once "counter-evangelized" someone who was evangelizing me. Unless we share true friendship, I leave it.

    I'm a Christian.
  9. by   khminh
    Quote from WestCoastSunRN
    Yes. I adapt in all sorts of ways for the sake of my patients. I think all nurses do this. You seem to be zeroed in on the evangelical aspect of Christianity.
    I don't think so. How many nurses do you think actually put themselves aside for patients' sake in this board? Just a click and you can see they take advantage of this learning forum to recruit souls.

    I bet they think you are not a real Christian.

    Quote from WestCoastSunRN
    That said, I've known "evangelicals" from various belief systems. I recognize this as sincerity in whatever beliefs the person holds and feels compelled to share and gain adherents of. I don't take it personally.
    Interestingly in my part of the country CHristians are in the minority. Atheism/agnosticism is the "new black". Makes me realize what it feels like to be in the minority.
    So far, most evangelicals I have encountered are Christians. There were a few occasions I encountered Hare Krishna and Wahabi Muslims. There were too few of them for me to make a big deal.

    You have very high threshold for evangelical Christians. I wish I still had it. If I was a naive ignorant person who knew nothing about the Bible, perhaps my tolerance would be high. I'm not the same person again after reading the Bible. I'm not an atheist, but I have to agree with Richard Dawkins that no character I have known of can be compared to Yahweh. Even a fascist like Hitler is a breeze compared to Christian god.

    I don't understand how nurses, who are supposed to be a paragon of compassion in health care profession, can ask people to believe in a deity like Yahweh with zealotry. When I think about having a neighbor who is enamored with an executioner, I got chill to my spine.

    When I was a kid, I had seen my uncle cut a chicken's throat and bleed it to death. It troubled me a lot, but I was raised in that environment, so I had no choice but getting used to it. Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to pass reading the Torah. It is truly bizarre that people can take this seriously and consider it good and just.

    Where are you living? I don't know any place in this country where Christians are the minority. They may be less vocal, but that doesn't mean they are in minority.

    Even in California, where non Christians are supposed to feel safe, I still occasionally encountered some Bible-belt Christians.

    Quote from WestCoastSunRN
    Sometimes someone preaches to me about whatever political/social/spiritual thing is on their heart. I smile and nod and might say "that's interesting".
    Perhaps you grew up in a religious culture and at least you are somewhat among the powerful group, so you can let it go easily.

    I was nurtured in a society where it is rude to provoke people's beliefs without their consent. My spirituality is personal, meaningful, and sacred to me. I am willing to let it be challenged in a right context. Otherwise, I prefer to keep it to myself just like what I am doing with my boyfriend at night.

    For patients' sake, I am happy to make an exception. It's difficult, but it is my calling when I choose to take care of them. With other nurses, it's a different story. I don't allow anyone to provoke me without asking me first. This is a common human decency and respect. Evangelical people don't seem to get it.



    Quote from WestCoastSunRN
    It's not that hard to given others space to believe whatever it is they'd believe. It's no skin off my bones.
    I don't care what people believe in their own world. As long as they leave me out of it, I will be cool. I have met people who profess their love in someone that I cannot stand, but I let them know it is all right to love whoever that brings them happiness and tranquility.

    Quote from WestCoastSunRN
    I've never once "counter-evangelized" someone who was evangelizing me. Unless we share true friendship, I leave it.
    I admire your tolerance. I wish I had that high level of resilience before I open my mouth. In the past, I took huge courage to slam my door in front of two Baptists. I felt good doing so. It felt free for not zipping my lips and not allowing to Christians to think that they own the public sphere so that they can do whatever they want.

    I hate being rude to people, but sometimes enough is enough. I let Christians get a pass at school, at work, at my property for many times. I no longer have patience for them; hence, I will smear them without legal assistance when they don't respect my boundary.
  10. by   Wuzzie
    Quote from khminh
    I don't think so. How many nurses do you think actually put themselves aside for patients' sake in this board? Just a click and you can see they take advantage of this learning forum to recruit souls.

    Do you have any idea how many people are part of this board? The number is actually staggering and the percentage of outspoken Christians is statistically insignificant. And they get shut down all the time when they go off the rails...by other Christian nurses no less. Learning is only one aspect of this site. The larger part of it is the social side. Perhaps you have misunderstood that.

    I bet they think you are not a real Christian.

    Maybe so but I don't care. My faith is between my God and me.


    I don't understand how nurses, who are supposed to be a paragon of compassion in health care profession, can ask people to believe in a deity like Yahweh with zealotry.

    Where in the heck do you live that this is so pervasive? I have to say in my 30+ years of doing this the subject rarely, if ever, comes up.


    Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to pass reading the Torah. It is truly bizarre that people can take this seriously and consider it good and just.

    So now you have Jews in your sights. They don't even proselytize. What's your beef with them?



    Otherwise, I prefer to keep it to myself just like what I am doing with my boyfriend at night.

    Okay that's really TMI!

    I don't care what people believe in their own world. As long as they leave me out of it, I will be cool. I have met people who profess their love in someone that I cannot stand, but I let them know it is all right to love whoever that brings them happiness and tranquility.

    Oh, but you do care! And you have spent an inordinate amount of time here bashing people who have been very tolerant of your views and have NEVER done anything to you.


    I hate being rude to people, but sometimes enough is enough. I let Christians get a pass at school, at work, at my property for many times. I no longer have patience for them; hence, I will smear them without legal assistance when they don't respect my boundary.

    Yet you feel fine with disrespecting the boundary of the community here who has never, ever done anything to you by repeatedly attacking the belief system of some of the members. By painting all Christians with the same broad brush without actually getting to know what the individual truly believes you are doing exactly that which you accuse them of doing. Being intolerant. You smear people here without even knowing them. Perhaps you need to remove the log from your own eye.


    I have responded to you on a few other posts and have attempted to remain open and neutral to your thoughts and beliefs. I have explained my fairly moderate, certainly not evangelical, belief system. I have let you know that I've never participated in the behaviors you abhor. But honestly, your rants are getting tiresome and you are hurting your cause. I think even the atheists here are getting a little irritated. You've said your piece. I think it's time you move on and participate in some discussions about actual nursing so we can get to know another side of you. I wish you peace in your journey
  11. by   WestCoastSunRN
    ^^ what she said. ^^
  12. by   khminh
    Quote from Wuzzie
    Do you have any idea how many people are part of this board? The number is actually staggering and the percentage of outspoken Christians is statistically insignificant. And they get shut down all the time when they go off the rails...by other Christian nurses no less. Learning is only one aspect of this site. The larger part of it is the social side. Perhaps you have misunderstood that.

    I admit that I don't get much about socialization at allnurses. What I see is usually advice, tips, stories about patients and how to better nursing care for them. Then there is arguments about religion and politics. I don't see much social interaction here. Maybe you can guide me to the correct board for that purpose.


    Quote from Wuzzie
    Where in the heck do you live that this is so pervasive? I have to say in my 30+ years of doing this the subject rarely, if ever, comes up.
    I lived in this area of Oakland for about 4 years before my family moved to the current apartment. There was a Christian church a few blocks from my house. Its people stopped by my house every 2-3 weeks. They alternate with Mormons and Jehovah witnesses. If they didn't hand out pamphlets, there would be questions exactly like the ones we see in this board about Jesus, being saved, eternal damnation.

    Then I encountered a Mexican Catholic apologetic, a non-denominational Christian from Fresno, a California native Presbyterian, a Greek Romanian Orthodox, and a Southern Baptist from Louisiana in college. It was not a rural area, but the school was secluded from surroundings.

    At my former workplace in Castro Valley, I encountered some Russian Christians.

    At my current job, I have two Christian colleagues who are wonderful people. Occasionally I encountered bible believing fundamentalists, a Hare Krishna, and two Muslims.


    I don't deal with annoying Christians every day. However, unpleasant experience with them has cumulative effects on me. Especially after I read the whole Bible, I can be triggered fast by certain statements.

    Quote from Wuzzie
    So now you have Jews in your sights. They don't even proselytize. What's your beef with them?
    I have met two self professed Jews so far. They are very nice people. I don't have any problem with them. When I said the Torah, I was talking about 5 books of Moses. I said that my childhood experience seeing chicken's throat cut and bled to death makes me more resilient when I read commandments in the Torah that ordered execution against non Hebrews. I think even Jason Vorhee's killings cannot be compared.

    You don't have to believe me. Just read Exodus, Numbers, Leviticus, you will understand.

    From my understanding, Jews always rely on the Talmud to understand the Torah. Christians, in contrast, actually believed these commandments were from God, and it was completely justified to kill anyone who violated any Mosaic laws. They believed that was good and just. That's why I get chill and become more cautious when I am around those Christians.


    Quote from Wuzzie
    Okay that's really TMI!
    I don't know what TMI means.

    Quote from Wuzzie
    Oh, but you do care! And you have spent an inordinate amount of time here bashing people who have been very tolerant of your views and have NEVER done anything to you.
    Yes, I do bash people, but these people are nurses who spread ideas that are dehumanizing. These people are not patients. I never get in an argument with patients. You have seen questions from nurses who are not sure what to do when patients ask them to pray with them. I never have that dilemma.

    Let me give you one example. At one of my former jobs, I took care of this patient who met his daughter once a week. The other daughter barely contacted him, and the son almost never called him. He was a Christian, a serious one. There was a bus that took him to church every week. Since his daughter couldn't be with him when he was in church, he said to me my presence with him would comfort his soul greatly. He saw me like a kid of his. He knew that I didn't believe in Jesus, so he didn't push me. I wanted to give him my best, so it didn't take even 2 seconds to say yes. I went to church with him when I was not busy.

    That is with patients. With nurses, it's a totally different story. Nurses are not my patients; they are healthcare professionals like I am. Hence, if they stop behaving like a professional, I will treat them exactly like that.


    Quote from Wuzzie
    Yet you feel fine with disrespecting the boundary of the community here who has never, ever done anything to you by repeatedly attacking the belief system of some of the members.
    Beliefs are not worthy of respect. People are worthy of respect when they practice their beliefs for personal development. When they tell me I should believe like they do, they are not worthy of my respect, either.

    I don't appreciate it when Christians, moderate or evangelical, constantly say to me "we are all born sinners." First of all, I am not a Christian. I don't belong to this "we" in their statement. Second of all, my culture was influenced by Buddhism and Confucianism, in which it is believed that people were born inherently good and that they have worth. I carry this value with me to this country. When Christians classify me under their religion, they dig their own grave because I have to defend myself.

    If Christians say "I was born a sinner", they talk about themselves. When they say "We were born sinners," in a conversation with me, they include me under their religion, and I am entitled to smear them. It's fair game.

    Quote from Wuzzie
    By painting all Christians with the same broad brush without actually getting to know what the individual truly believes you are doing exactly that which you accuse them of doing. Being intolerant. You smear people here without even knowing them.
    This happened to me in the past:

    Colleague: Do you go to church?
    Me: No
    Colleague: Do you want to go to church with me this Sunday?
    Me: No, thank you.
    Colleague: It will be fun, you know. You can receive God's blessing, too.
    Me: I don't worship your god.
    Colleague: But he loves you and cares about your soul.
    Me: I don't need to be blessed by a deity who ordered his chosen people to execute every Canaanite, including children. I would have to sacrifice my humanity first before I receive his blessing. Receiving blessing from your god would make me a tyrant sympathizer. I have my dignity and my inner Buddha to lose here.


    That shut him up for good. I no longer saw him after that incident. It was a relief.

    What do you think? Am I justified for smearing him?

    As you can see, when Christians make their religious statement, they almost always include "you", "we", "they". They include me and people who are not members of their faith in their faith-based statements. Thus, I feel like I have every right to smear them.

    If you think I am too harsh on Christians, what is your advice if you were in my shoes dealing with people like that colleague of mine? Honestly, I want to know.

    I never initiate any religious conversation with other nurses. The Christian in my example didn't talk like a street preacher, but he clearly didn't respect my boundary. I feel like I had to be firm with him by exclusively stating the reason I don't worship his god.

    I don't know how to respond without smearing him. Maybe you can teach me how to respond tactfully.

    I have my principle compromised for patients. I don't know if I can do the same with nurses.



    Quote from Wuzzie
    Perhaps you need to remove the log from your own eye.
    I'm sorry. I'm not a Christian. That passage in Luke 6:39-45 doesn't apply to me. I feel totally fine judging people when they make statements about me using their religion. I am not a member of their faith, so I don't feel an obligation to be an object for them to talk about. When they want me to adhere to their faith, I am entitled to judge them. I don't mind them judging me back.


    Quote from Wuzzie
    I have responded to you on a few other posts and have attempted to remain open and neutral to your thoughts and beliefs. I have explained my fairly moderate, certainly not evangelical, belief system. I have let you know that I've never participated in the behaviors you abhor. But honestly, your rants are getting tiresome and you are hurting your cause. I think even the atheists here are getting a little irritated. You've said your piece. I think it's time you move on and participate in some discussions about actual nursing so we can get to know another side of you. I wish you peace in your journey
    I say what I need to say. I simply response to whatever answer pointed at me. I don't intend to drag this topic forever.
  13. by   hppygr8ful
    Mods can we please close this thread already - It has been beaten to death!

close