The 1965 Entry Into Practice Proposal - Is It Relevant Today? - page 2
from ojin---check out these series of articles overview and summary: the 1965 entry into practice proposal - is it relevant today? davina j. gosnell, phd, rn, faan the topic of "entry into... Read More
Jun 14, '02Occupation: returned nurse Joined: Nov '98; Posts: 7,097; Likes: 5,234My point is that if this thing has not got moving in 35 years something is wrong somewhere. The more education the better I always thought. My opinion is that the people who wrote it engaged in a campagin of public putdowns of ADN nurses. In doing this they pulled the rug out from under their own feet. They are still doing it because recently I sat and watched a broadcast from Pitt campus on PCN. The insults the nursing professors where hurling sounded familiar. I say familiar because I attended Penn state about 12 years ago for several semesters. I had a advisor who was a ivory tower Phd who hadn't touch a patient in years. She was also mad as a hatter if you asked me. To have to sit there and listen to this disheveled mess of a woman tell me I was an inferior nurse got to be to much. I saw nothing to gain in having a BSN financially so I dropped out. My way of getting away from a situation where I am not satisfied with the degree of respect for my personhood or my nursehood has always been to use my feet.
Jun 14, '02Joined: Mar '99; Posts: 13,361; Likes: 1,376We have a shortage!
Are there sufficient BSN programs to replace those of us who will retire in the next few years?
Since there are not what is the point in this old, old conflict?
Some BSNs (I have a degree too so am NOT talking about all) say, "With your education you should only have to supervise."
When my loved ones or I am hospitalized please let a registered nurse do the assessment and the nursing process. I want an RN to prevent complications or death!
Jun 14, '02Joined: Jun '00; Posts: 1,017; Likes: 32Since 1965 the number of BSN nurses have increased. Yet the same problems still exist. It seems to me that if a true correlation existed between more BSN nurses and increased respect, imput into how healthcare was run and increased pay appropriate to the knowledge we have than it would have been increasingly evident as more nurses became BSNs. However it is evident that has not occured. Perhaps it is easy to say it has not occured because not ALL nurses are BSNs and therefore we won't reap the benefits until that is the case. I however believe that the biggest problem is not the lack of all nurses being BSN degreed nurses, but the situation that oramar describes. The situation that so many have experienced where instructors belittle and put down others who are not just like them.
Nurses are where they are not because of lack of BSN but because of what we do to one another, because of the inability to celebrate the various roles that we each hold. And perhaps most of all the inability to demand that we will be treated with respect and to demand a role in the healthcare decision making process. One is a doormat only when one allows that.
Jun 14, '02Occupation: Enterprise Application Systems Analyst Specialty: 27 year(s) of experience in Everything except surgery ; Joined: Mar '01; Posts: 5,601; Likes: 174[quote]originally posted by rncountry
[b]since 1965 the number of bsn nurses have increased. yet the same problems still exist. it seems to me that if a true correlation existed between more bsn nurses and increased respect, imput into how healthcare was run and increased pay appropriate to the knowledge we have than it would have been increasingly evident as more nurses became bsns. however it is evident that has not occured. perhaps it is easy to say it has not occured because not all nurses are bsns and therefore we won't reap the benefits until that is the case. i however believe that the biggest problem is not the lack of all nurses being bsn degreed nurses, but the situation that oramar describes. the situation that so many have experienced where instructors belittle and put down others who are not just like them.
nurses are where they are not because of lack of bsn but because of what we do to one another, because of the inability to celebrate the various roles that we each hold. and perhaps most of all the inability to demand that we will be treated with respect and to demand a role in the healthcare decision making process. one is a doormat only when one allows that.
a w e s o m e !
Jun 14, '02Occupation: RN Case Manager Joined: Apr '02; Posts: 4,945; Likes: 27Excellent post, RNcountry.
Jun 22, '02Occupation: Hospice clinical director Joined: May '02; Posts: 2,873; Likes: 26I am tired of hospital grads being described as people with technical skills, but without the ability to think critically; people who know how to do something, but not why.
This may come as a shock to the nursing elite, but I was taught how to do both. It seems quite natural, and I would be willing to bet the ranch that I'm not the only "lowly" diploma grad that was taught in this manner.
Thanks NRSKarenRN; I can always count on you to try to keep us diploma grads in our place.
Jun 22, '02Occupation: Utilization Review, prior Intake Mgr Home Care Specialty: 40 year(s) of experience in Home Care, Vents, Telemetry, Home infusion ; From: PA, US ; Joined: Oct '00; Posts: 27,548; Likes: 13,755Try to post interesting subjects and articles here that cover all spectrums of the nursing profession and healthcare in general...not always reflective of my personal opinion. Much to gain about dialogue and the advancement of nursing as a profession.Last edit by NRSKarenRN on Jun 22, '02
Jun 23, '02Occupation: Hospice clinical director Joined: May '02; Posts: 2,873; Likes: 26It's easy to hide behind that excuse, but it seems you only express opinions that belittle diploma nurses/non-BSN nurses. This haughty, nursier-than-thou attitude is part of what contributes to the divisivenes in our profession.
In these times, we should be looking how we can come together to better the profession, not dismissing those who we feel don't fit a desired profile.
If you're sick and in the hospital, are you going to demand BSN-only nurses? Or will non-BSN's "do" in a pinch?
Jun 23, '02Joined: Dec '01; Posts: 34; Likes: 49fab4fan,
It's a challenge to find postings where Karen "belittles diploma/non-BSN nurses." I think you'd be hardpressed to back up your point here.
Jun 24, '02Joined: Jun '00; Posts: 1,017; Likes: 32fab4fan, I would like to take an opportunity to tell you a little about my friend Karen.
About a year and a half ago several nurses on this board starting a conversation about a nurses march. Many of us got real excited about actually doing it. Karen was one of those nurses. Things actually began to move forward and some good things started to happen. THEN of course there started this fighting about union issues, non unions issues, some nurses who felt one way, others who felt another way. Some nurses who didn't want to include LPNs and others who did. Unfortunately in the heat of it all thinking that I had the number of the various people involved I made accusations that were inappropriate, and hurtful. In the long run I pulled out of the organization because of concerns over financial issues with the person who had filed the paperwork and the whole thing more or less went bust. It was sad because it showed such promise for us, a way to get someone to listen to the valid concerns of bedside nurses. But guess what? One person continued on, one person actually set up a rally on their own in their corner of the country and was able to get some education out there to laypeople and those who will ultimately likely become patients. By now I hope you realize I am talking about Karen. There were many people who had hoped to make a nurses march work, but only Karen actually made it work. Not because she was working on her BSN and felt that she needed to push that part of nursing, but because she truly cares a great deal not only for our profession, but for the people she takes care of too.
Last July I had the pleasure of meeting Karen while in Washington DC where she had traveled to rally behind the bill to ban mandatory overtime, as well as talking to legislators about nursing issues. Again while I hope I was able to do some small thing while I was there, Karen was much more active.
I do not believe I can recall one time in which I would say that Karen has been rude or belittled anyone else on this board, and I am terribly sorry if you feel otherwise. I am confident that if she said anything hurtful it would not have been intentional nor meanspirited.
If you go back through the thread you will note that I posted a note that more or less says that things havent' changed with BSN nurses increasing in the field and if they were going to it seems we would have seen it. I do not feel that Karen was saying this was the way it should be, but was instead looking for an honest and decent discussion as to whether it was even relevent for nurses to care about this as an issue or not. I may not always agree with Karen's opinion and I'm sure she doesn't always agree with mine, however nothing gets accomplished if one is not willing to ask questions honestly along with answers you may find uncomfortable or you didn't particularly want to hear. There are some deep significant issues in the profession that have to be addressed, which will never happen if there are not nurses who are willing to ask the questions. A good lively debate is refreshing and gets the mind thinking. I think it is poor to turn a debate in which everyone was being decent and thinking into a session in which someone is being stereotyped and verbal arrows are being slung. I won't lie and tell you I have always been nice, I have occasionally been terribly sarcastic to others, I would wager I have this more times than Karen has. I rarely respond when someone has said things about someone else that may not be the nicest, in fact I don't think I have ever come to the defense of someone else ever. It's just that I know that Karen is not an elitist, and that she has a strong keen desire to do what she can to enhance a profession that she feels strongly about. And I know that.
So please don't be offended, I would bet my first born child it was never meant that way.