Socialized Medicine sure is scary.....

  1. ezra klein has a very interesting discussion about the outcomes of the french health insurance system versus the us system.

    yes, but are we better? right, you say, that's all very not interesting. but how do we stack up with france? better? worse?
    yeah, the second one. france's health care system bodyslams us on most every metric. beyond the beds per 1,000 stat mentioned above, france has more doctors per 1,000 people (3.3 vs. 2.4), spends way less, has 3.2 more physician visits per capita (6 in france vs. 2.8 in america, which probably accounts for the better preventive care in france), has a much higher hospital admission rate, and beats us handily on the most important measure: potential years of life lost. american women lose 3,836 years per 100,000, while american men give up 6,648 in the same sample size (yes, we get screwed). in france, the comparable numbers are 2,588 years for the women and 5,610 for the men. still not great, but quite a bit better.
    so france spends less, gets more, and does so through a public-private hybrid that's heavily, heavily public. socialized medicine sure is scary.
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    About HM2VikingRN

    Joined: Apr '06; Posts: 11,159; Likes: 11,316

    43 Comments

  3. by   azhiker96
    I found this in the article,
    As it is, French physicians only make US $55,000, about 1/3rd what their American counterparts pull in.
    I haven't been able to find a source for nurse's salaries in France. Just trying to see the whole picture and how far our salaries would fall under a France style healthcare system.
  4. by   ZASHAGALKA
    The French can have their system.

    I prefer mine.

    Communism/Socialism doesn't work, and I don't want to either work for, or be treated by, a 'healthcare collective'. You'll pardon me if I don't have that much faith in the Federal Gov't.

    Frankly, I rather place my faith in some greedy corporation that at least has a vested interest in meeting my needs.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    Last edit by ZASHAGALKA on Sep 9, '06
  5. by   Spidey's mom
    Would the "French Paradox" be part of why folks in France live longer? Maybe it has more to do with diet than with medicine.

    All in all, I too prefer not to have myself taxed even more to socialize medicine.

    steph
  6. by   azhiker96
    I found some anecdotal evidence that nurses salaries in France are low. http://www.aboutmyjob.com/main.php3?...cle&artid=2489

    I guess if the government pays for healthcare then you don't have to pay the help as much.

    I actually work in an intensive care unit, 3 nights a week, for $1600/month!!! We are 2 night nuses for 27 patients, with 1 nurses aide! Makes one consider things a bit...not to mention sometimes having to deal with a shortage of materiel and/or medicaments.
    Last edit by azhiker96 on Sep 9, '06
  7. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Quote from azhiker96
    I found some anecdotal evidence that nurses salaries in France are low. http://www.aboutmyjob.com/main.php3?...cle&artid=2489

    I guess if the government pays for healthcare then you don't have to pay the help as much.
    Just ask teachers how the gov't monopoly affects THEIR salaries. . . not to mention how if affects the quality of our education system.

    How does our 'socialized' education program match up to the rest of the world? But, isn't it funny, when kids move away from the 'socialized' system, and into a post-secondary system that runs competitively off of their dollars, America produces the best.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
  8. by   StNeotser
    What I would like to know from Timothy or anyone else that supports the private healthcare industry in the USA is are they happy with things the way they are?

    When I moved to the USA in 1999 we both had jobs and were actually doubly insured because both our jobs offered family healthcare at low prices, mine was totally non-contributory and my husband paid about $150 per month for family health and dental.

    We are now in a situation where we pay $600 per month, the employer pays the other $600 that our plan supposedly costs. Healthcare costs to the consumer and HMO/PPO profits have risen considerably. So much so, that many people who are at minimum wage jobs and above just can't afford it. So the percentage of us that are paying for health insurance is getting smaller. Therefore hospitals are having more trouble with having to care for the uninsured and ERs around the country are closing. Those costs get passed on to those of us who are insured as well as through our taxes.

    There are really people out there who make the choice between paying for health insurance or their rent, utilities and food.

    Do you have a solution for the escalating cost of healthcare and how it could become more affordable for the low income groups? And please don't tell me they should stop having cable TV.

    I also agree with you about the government monopoly on teaching salaries and I think that we as nurses will be screwed royally if the US government ever gets in charge. I've seen it enough in the UK.
  9. by   buddiage
    Ol' Mikey Moore has just made a film called "Sicko" that deals with this issue of healthcare in America. I don't like Moore at all, but I'd go to see that film for something to provoke thought and ask questions.

    You may not get all the facts (and he is an "entertainer") but you may want to see it. I heard about it this morning.
  10. by   Fuzzy
    I just want an affordable health insurance policy. I would be happy with a catastrophic policy. I really don't want socialized medicine. I want affordable and accessible medicine. I keep asking myself, "Why do my pets get better healthcare than I?". They aren't insured. There healthcare is affordable.

    Fuzzy
  11. by   CoolhandHutch
    I keep asking myself, "Why do my pets get better healthcare than I?". They aren't insured. There healthcare is affordable.
    Your vet doesn't get sued very much. Now, I honestly don't believe malpractice lawsuits affect the cost of healthcare, but I do believe CYA medical practice does.
  12. by   buddiage
    Okay, I'm back from cleaning up the kitchen.

    Hey, you know...here's the thing:

    How many times have the insurance companies opened their books to show how much it costs and what their profit is? The answer: 0.

    You know, we are all griping at the wrong people. We gripe at the hospitals for charging so much, we gripe at doctors for making too much, we gripe at the CYA protection that doctors much have to practice because of exhorbant lawsuits (which inflates costs). We gripe about prescriptions costing too much. The reason this got the way it was is because doctor's were milking insurance for everything they had a while back. They figured out a way to put it back on the doctor's- but now it is totally profit driven for insurance companies, and doctor's have to talk "money" with insurance companies before they're allowed to treat you. It's forced them to take too many patients a day, too much paperwork. The insurance companies are the bad guys...

    SOCIALIZED MEDICINE IS NOT THE WAY TO GO- it would lower the quality of care for EVERYBODY.

    Insurance companies givve themselves raises every year. There is no law that mandates them to share thier black ink-laden ledgers. Does insurance companies have a champion that is kissing someone's a$$ in the government? Without a doubt! Why is it that they have gotten away with it?

    In a perfect world, a show of force of healthcare workers, employers, and health care consumers would convince the government to make insurance companies open their books for all to see. People will be pissed.
  13. by   Kelly_the_Great
    :yeahthat: :yeahthat:

    Spoken like a true Missouri woman from the Show Me State!

    Why are the ins. co. above accountability? Because they are probably the most powerful lobbying group in Washington, D.C....
  14. by   StNeotser
    Quote from buddiage
    Insurance companies givve themselves raises every year. There is no law that mandates them to share thier black ink-laden ledgers. Does insurance companies have a champion that is kissing someone's a$$ in the government? Without a doubt! Why is it that they have gotten away with it?

    In a perfect world, a show of force of healthcare workers, employers, and health care consumers would convince the government to make insurance companies open their books for all to see. People will be pissed.
    OK, so here's a report from our friends at United Healthcare

    http://www.unitedhealthgroup.com/inv...6/UNH_AR05.pdf

    You'll have to get to page 20 of 28.

    Meanwhile, this is happening in my community;

    http://www.9news.com/acm_news.aspx?O...7-c589c01ca7bf

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