Socialized Medicine sure is scary.....

[HM2VikingRN]

ezra klein has a very interesting discussion about the outcomes of the french health insurance system versus the us system.

yes, but are we better? right, you say, that's all very not interesting. but how do we stack up with france? better? worse?

yeah, the second one. france's health care system bodyslams us on most every metric. beyond the beds per 1,000 stat mentioned above, france has more doctors per 1,000 people (3.3 vs. 2.4), spends way less, has 3.2 more physician visits per capita (6 in france vs. 2.8 in america, which probably accounts for the better preventive care in france), has a much higher hospital admission rate, and beats us handily on the most important measure: potential years of life lost. american women lose 3,836 years per 100,000, while american men give up 6,648 in the same sample size (yes, we get screwed). in france, the comparable numbers are 2,588 years for the women and 5,610 for the men. still not great, but quite a bit better.

so france spends less, gets more, and does so through a public-private hybrid that's heavily, heavily public. socialized medicine sure is scary.

[StNeotser, ASN, RN]

Insurance companies givve themselves raises every year. There is no law that mandates them to share thier black ink-laden ledgers. Does insurance companies have a champion that is kissing someone's a$$ in the government? Without a doubt! Why is it that they have gotten away with it?

In a perfect world, a show of force of healthcare workers, employers, and health care consumers would convince the government to make insurance companies open their books for all to see. People will be pissed.

OK, so here's a report from our friends at United Healthcare

http://www.unitedhealthgroup.com/invest/2006/UNH_AR05.pdf

You'll have to get to page 20 of 28.

Meanwhile, this is happening in my community;

http://www.9news.com/acm_news.aspx?OSGNAME=KUSA&IKOBJECTID=8fd77578-0abe-421a-0102-1aafb8a693bc&TEMPLATEID=0c76dce6-ac1f-02d8-0047-c589c01ca7bf

[buddiage]

:madface: :madface: :angryfire :angryfire :angryfire :angryfire :banghead:

That is amazing. IN THE MILLIONS it was listed. I want to know, is that their profit after they have paid their employees, their executives, etc?

Barnes Jewish Hospital (one of the best in the country) and UnitedDontCare had an issue on their hands about a year or so ago. UnitedDontCare was not going to insure patients going to Barnes-Jewish hospital (not going to get into the eensy weensy details, etc). Initially, it looks bad on Barnes-Jewish part, but it really is the insurance company!!

I don't know what was every made of it. I have been so wrapped up in school, but one of the things I told myself I was going to do is raise heck with health insurance companies and put energy in for change.

Healthcare is more like a business now than it was 30 years ago. Now the thing is to call patient's "clients," because of this insurance bull----.

[NCVegRN]

Why are the ins. co. above accountability? Because they are probably the most powerful lobbying group in Washington, D.C....

Actually, the most powerful lobby in Washington is the pharmaceutical industry. Second is agriculture. Why? For one thing, 70% of all antibiotics used in the country are used on livestock.

[pickledpepperRN]

Non profits have to make their finances available. You have to go the their office with paper and pen because they dodn't have to make you a copy, just show it to you.

Publicly traded corporations have to provide information to shareholders. When our hospital was bought by a for profit I bought two shares. They sent a prospectus with glowing high profits, just the opposite to what they told nursing staff.

All this isn't necessarity accurate. Remember Enron?

Look at page 39:

http://www.calnurses.org/research/pdfs/IHSP-Hospital-200.pdf

Pharmaceuticals:

http://www.calnurses.org/research/pdfs/Profits-of-Pharma-Corp.pdf

[Fuzzy]

Your vet doesn't get sued very much. Now, I honestly don't believe malpractice lawsuits affect the cost of healthcare, but I do believe CYA medical practice does.

He also doesn't get paid as much as an MD especially since their educations are comparable. Likewise the veterinary staff (technicians, assistants, receptionists, etc.) don't get near the wages that their counterparts in human medicine do. The veterinary practice has to keep their prices reasonable because most animals are not insured by third parties. Plus most livestock care has an economical side to it as well. Unfortunately from what I have seen, heard, and experienced most animals receive better and more timely treatment from the veterinary profession. For example, my dog's bloodwork will be back the same day. The vet's office calls me with the results by the next day if not sooner. While it may take two weeks or longer for the doctor's office to tell me about my own bloodwork if I can find anything out at all. Many times I have to annoy the staff in order to get any answers at all. I have seen the same thing with rads, ultrasound, and other workups. Seems like I receive the bill before I receive the results.

While socialized medicine looks good on paper, the thought scares me in practice. Anytime that the government trys to "fix" something; they break it even more. Healthcare is confusing enough. I feel sorry for the seniors when the government "fixed" medicare so that they can get their prescriptions at a more reasonable rate.

Our healthcare system is broken in more ways than one.

Fuzzy

[pickledpepperRN]

I don't agree with the pharmaceutical lobby getting their Medicare law passed. The good thing is that we can vote out those who care more for campaign contributions than the citizens they are supposed to represent.

Nothing is perfect but I think the payer of health care should be accountable to the citizens rather than shareholders and the bottom line: http://www.calnurses.org/healthcare/

Then like my friend who has worked in Canada for more than 40 years you could contribute your useful work and still have healthcare.

[azhiker96, BSN, RN]

I'd like to see SB 840 implemented. Supporters say it will save money. The governor says it will cost billions. The question I have is what items will be covered? It could fulfill it's promise to provide healthcare by providing aspirin and bandaides or cost billions if it pays for total hip and knee replacements for all seniors. Like all things, the devil is in the details.

[pickledpepperRN]

I'll be amazed if this governor signs it, but he has made 180 degree turns before.

Benefits: Coverage includes all care prescribed by a patient's health care provider that meets accepted standards of care and practice.

Specifically, coverage includes hospital, medical, surgical, and mental health; dental and vision care; prescription drugs and medical equipment, such as hearing aids; emergency care including ambulance; skilled nursing care after hospitalization; substance abuse recovery programs; health education and translation services, including services for those with hearing and vision impairments; transportation needed to access covered services, diagnostic testing; and hospice care.

http://www.calnurses.org/healthcare/sb-840-kuehl-fact-sheet.html

[LydiaNN]

I don't think translating French salaries into American dollars gives us any real picture of the standard of living those dollars provide. It's comparing apples to oranges.

[Multicollinearity, BSN, RN]

deleted. not entering this fray!

[rninme]

Just a thought....I have a Canadian RN friend....after 30 years of working for the CHS....they get a full pension....their entire salary, complete with raises....for the rest of their lives. Better than any pension plan I am looking at....and I have been working for 20+ years now:( .

I don't think that socialized medicine is the answer...but....something has to be done.

[PANurseRN1]

National pride can be the cause of much ignorance. With all the "Rah Rah, USA USA!" posts, do people not see that perhaps there are some things we can learn from other countries? Our way is not the only way.