Is Health Care a Right? - page 42

Just want to see your opinion (friendly discussion, no flaming, please). Is health care a right that should be enjoyed equally here in the U.S.? If so, how would this be financed without breaking... Read More

  1. by   JMP

    Rest assured that if Canadian's go to the US for care, THEY pay THEIR own money. No insurance here will cover them. (Unless they are travelling and then they will be airlifted back home ASAP)

    Why would they do that? Perhaps they feel that there are specialists or special treatments not available to them in Canada, which may or may not be true.

    The US does not pay for them. They pay their own way.

    When I posted about US citizens -UNINSURED- coming here, it was to make a point, to address an earlier post you made, if you recall.

    Gromit, take the time to be informed. The US is good and great, BUT THEY CAN STILL learn from others. Especially when it comes to social programs and health care for all citizens.
  2. by   Jayne LPN

  3. by   Gromit
    JMP, having worked in EMS for far too many years, I must assure you that they do not always tend to "pay their own way". Insurance or not, if they appear in the ER, they will get care. Anyone here knows this.

    Take the time to be informed.
    You do so as well.

    Nobody ever said that the US could not learn, nor did they say its the best route to go. However, socializing yet another part of our lives is NOT always the best answer. It works in Canada (for some, at least. Others (vocal minority?) have written otherwise.
    The conditions are quite different as well, though. Our government does not tax us nearly at the rate that most other countries live under (I remember fuel(gasoline) in Spain, for instance, running at $3 per gallon (converted from liters), that was in the mid '70s. Lord knows what they pay now). From what I've read or seen, many other things are taxed higher as well, on a per-capita basis, we don't have it so bad. Are US Citizens willing to pay a substantial increase in taxes to fund a 'one-size-fits-all' healthcare system? I think not. I certainly am not. You said way-back that it needn't cost more taxes (never seen a government do it for less, not more, but just for the sake of argument...) perhaps you are right, -and I believe we could. IF we quit 'donating' so much money to other countries, and scaled back on other programs (like Defense), we would have more than enough. I'd be OK with that. I think putting so much 'aid' money to so many other countries (who don't like us anyway) is a true waste.
    There, problem solved! Plenty of dough.

    Social programs have many pitfalls as well. In a capitalistic society, the big incentive to improve is the almighty dollar (or whatever denomination). The government taking over and setting the limits, well, that kind of removes the incentives, and you have stagnation. I mean, if 'the government and others' are going to foot the bill, why should I bother?

    'free' appeals to all, and people who do not shell-out the bread, look at it as a boon to them. Want proof? Offer up anything for free, you will have takers, and supply will certainly be exceeded by demand.
  4. by   sixes
    Suzy K
    I'm not saying that more money has to come out of your pocket. And perhaps Canada is not perfect.
    I am greatful to Have the mighty USA on our side of the world and I am also very thankful that you have a great powerful defence system that helps to protect our failing Armed Force.
    The US also gives away billions of dollars annually to country's that no longer like the US and also do not appreciate the generosity of the US citizens who optimal foot the bill.
    Would your tax dollars not be better used to allow everyone in the states proper healthcare???
    Yes we pay higher cost for gasoline, food, taxes, But does it amount to the cost of a 1 week stay in your hospital after a triple bypass or a lengthy stay for a transplant? I think not, but correct me if I'm wrong.
    With 5 children I am still glad to be a CANADIAN. My husband is on disability for thoracic outlet syndrome which developed after years of working as a diamond driller. He will eventually need surgery, if this was to occur in the US would I still be able to feed my family, pay the mortgage, or perhaps save a little money to help my children when they go off to college???
    I would probable lose everything I ever worked for.
    I just don't think it is fair that the hard working people in the US don't have proper coverage and that an illness could ruin you financially never mind what it must do to those kind people emotional.
    Again I'm sorry if I struck a nerve
    Have a nice day and good health to everyone
  5. by   fergus51
    Sixes, although we pay more in taxes here in Canada, I actually take home a little more percentage wise than when I live in the US and take US taxes and health care insurance out of my paycheck.

    It really doesn't matter though. Health care in Canada has reached the status of a national religion, and I can't imagine a majority ever favoring getting rid of universal access. At the same time, anything that can be labelled "socialist" in the US will always be reviled and never accepted as a part of daily life, even IF it were fabulous. The US needs an American solution, not the Canadian one.
  6. by   semstr
    Tracy, you are one wise woman!
  7. by   Gromit
    Fergus, I've never seen it put that way, but I'm very impressed. You hit it right on the head. Wish I'd thought of it!

    I'd say youre completely right.

    I do believe we will solve our problem (one way or the other we will have to -if not before, then certainly after it collapses entirely.). I just hope we do a good job.

    Well, back to the books.
  8. by   sixes
    I guess we could go on debating this for ever.
    I did not realize that taxes were that high in the US, forgive me I am canadian and have never left Ontario.
    I just see what is on TV, everything seems cheaper and your dollar is worth way more then our LOONIE.
    Yes our health care system is the best and I can not think of an country that would not want it, Yes the US needs a Us solution, I am just thankful that I'm not the one who has no health coverage.
    I hope your government solves this national disaster as fast at it is solving the conflict with Iraq.
    I will repeat myself again everyone in the US deserves proper coverage, in a country with such great wealth no one young or old should have to live in fear of becoming ill, illness is a fact of live and it does'nt care if you are rich or poor.
    Have a great day.
    On a happier note it is +4C today the sun is shining brightly prehaps our-26C weather is gone for good.
  9. by   Gromit

    I really WOULD like to see my country cut back drastically on the aid it sends out to other countries, though. It would help OUR citizens a lot, I think.
  10. by   caroladybelle
    Why, health care should be a Right.

    Along with world peace, freedom of SPEECH, THOUGHT and religion - freedom for Equality and against racism.

    But here at alln...America, we don't have those, so why are we worried about Health Care.
  11. by   Gromit
    Hmm, so you are saying (while adding to a thread that hasn't been touched in 2 months, thusly making it a dead subject) that YOU (Caroladybelle) do not have freedom of speech, or the freedom of thought, (I'm not sure what the other two meant. Freedom against racism?). But the healthcare thing has been pounded to death.

    You would freely give away what I have to work so hard to get. I.E. my paycheck to someone else. Its one thing if I give charitably to others, but another thing entirely if I'm forced to give up my $$. Why bother with this track of thought? I'm not about to change my mind (I FIRMLY believe that I should be allowed to keep much of what I earn through my hard work. And those on the other side FIRMLY believe that I should be forced to give up yet more of my bread to subsidize yet another government program).

    The constitution never granted healthcare as a right.
  12. by   mattsmom81
    IMO basic healthcare is a right we ALREADY enjoy in the US. Every community I know of has a county clinic or hospital which works with indigent, and it is against the law for facilities to turf serious ailments due to inability to pay. So the people who need free or low cost basic healthcare already get it, in my experience. If they don't, they aren't looking too hard.

    The key word here is BASIC. In our entitled society, US citizens don't know the meaning of basic anymore, I fear. Too many want something big for nothing, and want anybody else but them to foot the bills for what they 'want' vs what they 'need'..

    I'm tired of my hard earned $$s paying for convicts to get CABG's and kidneys, (just one example) so I'm not really in favor of an extended government health care system in excess of what we have now (indigent care/welfare/medicaid) This is sufficient, IMO.
  13. by   JMP
    I know my opinion is different, based on country..which is different from the US. I do, however, disagree about basic rights.

    I guess working in a ICU, it is hard for me to see what basic rights might be... nasal prongs if SOB and Sa02 less than 96... intubation if resp distress due to aspiration? Where would the line be drawn, a 40 year old needs a CABG, is working but has no insurance ..... who makes that desicison?

    Like I said, I know we are different countries, but to me, if you are alive and the docs think they can change your life by doing a CABG... but you are WORKING POOR and can not afford health insurance, it would be a crime in my eyes to NOT GET it due to finances.

    I just can not get by the working poor not having the same health care as those who can afford the health insurance.

    Just my opinion... and yes my taxes are high and yes we have universal health insurance.