Is Health Care a Right?

[VickyRN]

Just want to see your opinion (friendly discussion, no flaming, please). Is health care a right that should be enjoyed equally here in the U.S.? If so, how would this be financed without breaking the bank? How would you place limits (if any) on health care for all?

[Sally_ICURN]

Originally posted by Susy K

Continually saying "I don't get it" doesn't help either. Your (and not just you Sally) not being able to articulate a point isn't my fault.

LOL! Susy what is your solution then? What do we do? How do we fix this healthcare system that doesn't work? I want to hear it. Please, I truely want to consider what you have to say. Because all I'm hearing is that people should cover themselves. But how? How do we do it? It's unrealistic to think that you're not going to be part of the answer. What's your proposed solution?

[Q.]

I don't have any answers. I just know what I don't think will work.

For starters, I think we need to take a hard look at Medicare/Medicaid and fix the problems there. Medicare is slow to reimburse, if at all; Medicaid has too much potential to be abused by some and allow others to fall in between the cracks. I think if we can fix these problems first, without throwing more money at it, then I might be convinced that a national health care program would work.

I also think that removing employers as the "middle man" in health insurance negotiations might help things. As a consumer of health insurance, I really have no say on price, product or terms of service. My employer negotiates that and I think the power needs to go back to the consumer: us.

Thirdly, our entire mind-set in this nation needs to change. We are fat, lazy, self-centered and too stuck on immediate gratifications. Even despite the economy woes, most of us live pretty damn good. But saving in our country really isn't a priority; people spend, spend, spend and the majority of Americans are in high credit card debt. That leads into our health care mentality. People don't want to utilize more effective, simple health care measures: they'd rather be seen in the ER and have an MRI "just in case." The technology is there, and we demand it, whether it's appropriate or not. Our mindset needs to change to healthy behaviors, responsibility for oneself and one's health, and accountability for things that risk that - like smoking, drinking, etc.

I dunno. That's all I know. But that's why I feel like throwing more money at it won't help until the above problems are solved. THEN if more money is needed, only then would I feel alright in doing so.

[Sally_ICURN]

Thank you.

[Nurse Ratched, RN]

Nicely put, Susy. It's like with kids - you don't give them freedom all at once - you gradually increase their privileges as they show an ability to handle the responsibility properly. Our gov't has so far shown no ability to properly manage the health care coverage it already sponsors.

I'm getting a little off-track, but an addendum to your comment re: instant gratification: can't tell you how many patients we've seen in the past month who all want antibiotics even when there was all kinds of clinical data indicating the problem wasn't even bacterial. Explaining the whole resistant germ thing to people that wouldn't finish their atbx scripts. One person even said "Who cares if germs become resistant - they'll just make a new antibiotic then." Like you said - too many people want what they want and right now. Another person said it would be ok for him to have the more expensive atbx now because he had insurance. Forget that the cheap one was just fine for his infection.

[sunnygirl272]

Originally posted by KC CHICK

Apparantly, Susy isn't the only one that "doesn't get it".

I agree with many of her points.

No, our system isn't perfect. It's VERY apparent when hard working folks who are temporarily down and out can't get the help they deserve. It's also grossly taken advantage of by others who are capable of working to support themselves, but for some reason...choose not to.

The daughter of a friend of my mother's drives a Lincoln Navigator....and is on federal and state aid. BTW, she is not disabled in any way. How screwed up is that???

I was also told, by my best friend today, that a L&D patient of hers drove off in a new SUV after having her delivery paid for .....by us. She too was on aid. This individual and spouse own their own business and don't claim all to the gov't. Sickening.

The universal health care systems both in Canada and Great Britain aren't without their problems either. Personally, I haven't seen anyone address the articles that I posted awhile back regarding the holding of services or the long waits.

I don't know what the answer is. All I know is I have worked hard to get where I am today. I'm tired of feeling like I'm being taken advantage of by others who simply choose to live off the system. I know not all have attitudes of this nature.....but I've witnessed enough to know that the attitude is widespread...an epidemic if you will.

The question remains unanswered....WHEN IS ENOUGH, ENOUGH?

If there is no motivation, no reward for hard work. Why am I working my patootie off now?

Maybe I'm selfish, but I want the fruits of my labors to go to my family and loved ones.

If I can't do that...then I might as well quit my job and dump my dreams right now.

Anne:confused:

Miranda's mommy rocks.

[kmchugh]

Originally posted by JMP

Melsay

I have been trying to tell some of these posters for a few posts now what universal health care is all about, how it can work etc.

However, they have their minds set on keeping the out of wack system they have and defending their right to it to the bitter end.

Kevin, you have disappointed me. You asked me specific questions, I answered them and no reponse.

JMP

I am SOOOOO sorry to disappoint you. Truely, I'm crushed. Its just that I realized when you continued to call those of us who disagree with you names, there would be no debating the points of disagreement with you. You are not even willing to discuss limits to taxation beyond your own short sighted abilities.

You are too hidebound, too sanctimonious, and too smug to try to reason with. Therefore, I have chalked up your arguments to emotion, and written you off (on this topic) as being unable to respond logically and reasonably. Sorry, but I just don't have the time for your nonsense.

Kevin McHugh

[JMP]

Kevin

My nonsense is the Canadian health care system, where I work and live. The topic of this thread is "is universal health care a right?" I, in my emotional and nonsensical way, know it to be true that it is a right, for Canadian citizens. It is a fact of life here.

I too think that it is silly to carry on a debate when it is obivous that you either don't care to know the facts, or are too fearful to come to terms with them. The facts speak for themselves and there are a number of links, going WAY back on this thread that all can be read for proof.

You went WAY back on this thread and addressed me personally, this past weekend, and I took the time to reply to you. The fact that we disagree is obvious, the fact that we come from different places where different values are held is also obvious. THe fact that we both have our minds made up, at least I know I do, that my way ( Canadian Health care system) is the better way, is also obvious. As I also stated earlier .....I live a good life, have a good income, and STILL my fellow citizens are covered for ANY medical need. It is something, I feel, to be proud of.

I wish you luck. I wish you continued medical coverage.

Always willing to agree to disagree, even with you Kevin.

[kmchugh]

Originally posted by Sally_ICURN

I'm wondering, do you hold stock in an insurance company?

When all else fails, try to cow the person with an opposing viewpoint with a slur. Why is it that those of us supposed "selfish," "greedy" "self indulgent" people who just aren't smart enough to get it aren't the ones tossing the insults?

Sally, the point is this: You came across a time where your income was somewhat reduced. You had a few nice things, and wanted to keep them. Understandable. BUT you wanted the taxpayers to foot the bill for your health care so you could keep your "stuff" and still feel comfortable about health care. Sorry, but in my time working to get where I am now, whatever luxuries I had and kept, I paid for. I also kept and paid for my insurance. In order to go back to school, and keep some of my "stuff," I had to give up or forego some other "stuff." By your own admission, you did not go back to school to get out of poverty, but to get out of a dead end job. I applaud your motivation. But, if health care was so important, then going back to school perhaps should have waited. It is not the responsibility of the taxpayer, nor the government, to make your life easier, to get you ahead in the world, or to make you happy. That responsibility rests squarely on the individual's shoulders.

Is it so hard for you to see why Susy, myself, and others are having such a hard time with this?

Kevin McHugh

[Q.]

This may come as a surprise to some (but not to Vegas who thinks I'm all soft and nice lately) but I feel that Kevin was surprisingly hard on JMP in his last post. I too hate the insults and name-calling, though.

And not that I agree with you, but JMP your last post to Kevin was very good.

Ok I'm done now.

[melsay, LPN]

JMP....I would just like to say that I am very pleased when I hear that ALL the ppl of ANY country have complete health coverage. You are very lucky to have that. I don't agree w/ everything you say, but then again I don't agree w/ a lot. I am here, as everyone else to express my opinions on a VERY VERY touchy subject. I commend you for voicing your opinion, in which you have great arguments. Keep up the good work.:)

[Sally_ICURN]

Ya know, now I'm sorry I ever posted what I did, and I rarely regret anything I say or do. I should have known that it would get blown out of proportion. I should've known. Ah well, I guess I'm still living and learning even in my old age.

btw, my question to Susy wasn't intended as a "slur."

[semstr]

still having fun here, all of you? LOL