Is Health Care a Right?

OzNurse69 · Jan 21, 2003

Oops, double post -- sorry!!

sunnygirl272 · Jan 21, 2003

Originally posted by OzNurse69

Oh, one more question -- does everyone who is employed automatically get private health cover? Or are there some in low-paying jobs who don't have insurance included as part of their salary package?

no, not everyone who is employed has health insurance....

sanakruz, ADN · Jan 21, 2003

I believe those hospitals went bankrupt much like Enron and Kmart.

No there's no back up system Oznurse69- One will be sent a bill.Yeah One would receive tx in a diabetic coma. Wouldn't it make more sense to tx this poor individual prior to the emergency.

Hasn't this question been asked already by a thoughtful poster (as opposed to the sanctimonius shyt disturber)

Where was the help for supplies like lancets and test strips mot to mention meds?

No not all folks who work are offered health insurance.

We have already been offered solutions like a payroll tax by a thoughtful poster previously.

I dont care if a hospital is solvent or not. Do you? This is not why I got into nursing to worry about some fatcats stock portfolio!!! I do care If a fellow human whom I am in no postion to judge dies. Did you see the post about the inmates dead baby? I have never seen such an insensitive and FRIGHTENING post on this board! JUDGEMENTAL AND SANCTIMONIUS!

With that those of you with the stomach for this pap can go on. I'm giong to clean out the fridge because a leopard does not change it's spots Suzy true form has been revealed. GOODBYE

maureeno · Jan 21, 2003

not only do all employeers not offer health insurance, the percentage that do is decreasing. in fact many small business owners say they are being squeezed out of offering coverage. meanwhile the drug company SmithKlineGlaxo will no longer being making its drugs available to Canandian pharmacies who fill American perscriptions; many Americans have been treking to Canada or using the internet to obtain their medicines at sometimes half the cost for the same drugs in the USA.

Venti Cappucino · Jan 21, 2003

Actually, in the USA, quite a few jobs do not provide benefits these days (Thankfully, some still do).

From what I've seen, the worst hit are the clerical and administrative office workers.

Just as an example, many companies these days have laid off their clerical staff and hired temps, thru agencies, and keep them on a semi-permanent basis. Not all temp agencies offer benefits, and of those that do, it's not uncommon for a temp to be laid off or suddenly have a week or two without an assignment, right before benefits kick in.

Gromit · Jan 21, 2003

Originally posted by OzNurse69
Really?? So (and this may seem like an obvious question, but humour me, ok?) why doesn't the US govt impose a levy/tax to cover people like this? Someone has to pay, obviously, but why should the cost be left to the hospital? -- oh, other than the fact that no administration likes to impose new taxes because they will be seen as unpopular -- but surely there is room for adjustment in the budget to cover such events?

Well, to those of us working and living in the States, we believe our tax burdon is already excessive (there is NO reason for the government to automatically grab 1/3 of the paycheck (before you even get a cent deposited, and THATS for the LOWER end of middleclass like myself), and then everything you buy or do, is ALSO taxed.

I know that to other countries, this amount of taxation is low. I know this, and understand this (I lived in Europe for 6 years, not on a base, but in public, went to their schools, etc. Seville, Spain, in the early 70s). However, OUR government, and the documents upon which it was founded and the limitations imposed on (the government) specify what role it plays in our lives. Basically, maintenance of the underpinnings of civilization (law enforcement, etc, defense -i.e. the military, and so forth). It does not specify who will grow food, and how much they will grow. The difference here, is that we are supposed to have the freedom to grow, make companies, employ others and chase our dreams. We were NEVER founded to take care of everyone who wanted it.

Our country is second to none when it comes to charity. More money, food, supplies, etc. is donated to our contrymen, and that of other countries than any other country. The difference is, it is our CHOICE to donate. Many here do not approve of the government just taking it, and supplying it (redistribution of wealth) to others who just want it. Socialized, universal, when healthcare is involved, its very similar. I do not feel I should be forced to pay for whatever you want to be treated for.

with medicare/medicaid we have a 'safetynet' for those who CANNOT pay, but its not a complete safetynet. I'm sorry, but I absolutely do not believe in 'free' healthcare for all (after all, it is NOT free. its just paid for by someone else).

This does not work nearly as well as others may like to believe, in those countries that have it. Many of them (if not all) have waiting lists for your ailments. I have cousins in England who described being put on waiting lists for something as simple as a cataract surgery, only to finally reach the front of the line, to realize that their eye is no longer salvageable.

Our system is way far from perfect. However, the freedom of those to research and chase their desires, has paid off in many new techniques and therapies.

I do not have the answer, but I don't believe in pushing people ahead when I have to work full-time, and go to school full-time, along with the usual price of living, just to get ahead.

NOBODY is paying my way. I do it myself. I'm not alone.

SANAKRUZ: I have no doubt of the mismanagement of hospitals, just like other companies. However, they DO have to swallow a large chunk of bills (which in turn, increases OUR costs as patients who DO pay their bills -yes I have been one). However, while I don't care about the paychecks of the fat-cats that run the show, I know that no hospital at all, means no work for me, and no treatment for my patients. You may hate the institution, but you have to be realistic. Not every big company is an Enron or Kmart.

Sally_ICURN · Jan 21, 2003

Originally posted by OzNurse69
So what happens to Fred, who has no insurance, and collapses with an MI in the street?

Fred gets a scoop and run to the nearest ED.

Fred's life is saved.

Fred has a job, but with no health insurance benefits. Maybe Fred is a single father and supports a family of three including himself living just above the poverty level and just barely makes ends meet paycheck to paycheck with his income. Like a lot of people do here.

He applies for medicare/medicaid or whatever is offered by his federal and state governments to help pay for the cost of his illness.

He is denied assistance because he makes $.50 more an hour than is deemed "in need" of that assistance.

Fred's on his own with this.

Fred receives the bill from the hospital, but cannot pay the bill, even in small increments it would take him more than a lifetime.

Fred may claim bankruptcy or simply not pay and the hospital eats the charges.

The hospital eating the charges is a problem and that's another reason why healthcare delivery MUST change in this country. I have no problem with hospitals that are not for profit, it's the for-profit healthcare corporations that screw everything up.

If Fred were insured by one of these corps., it's quite possible that his insurer might try to deny payment to the hospital that saved Fred's life because it was not part of their group or in their "network" of hospitals.

Why doesn't the government impose a levy/tax? Because the people here who can make ends meet a little more comfortably than Fred are tired of being taxed up the wazoo for everything from a-z.

~Sally

and btw, please don't get the idea that all Americans who receive public assistance are sitting on their butts at home and just enjoying the freebies.

fergus51 · Jan 21, 2003

I maintain that the taxes Americans ALREADY pay could be reallocated into public health and other programs to deal with this problem. I mean George W Bush is certain we all pay enough to give us big tax breaks. The only logical reason is that he thinks the gov't can lose BILLIONS of tax dollars and still be able to provide the services it needs to. So why can't that go into health care access, at least for all children? (Cause I don't care how much you all love to toss the words "personal responsibility" around in a debate like this, a child has no responsibility for his/her financial situation)

Q. · Jan 21, 2003

Originally posted by sanakruz
I believe those hospitals went bankrupt much like Enron and Kmart.

And what facts are you basing this on? Are you a native of Milwaukee?

Did you see the post about the inmates dead baby? I have never seen such an insensitive and FRIGHTENING post on this board! JUDGEMENTAL AND SANCTIMONIUS!
With that those of you with the stomach for this pap can go on. I'm giong to clean out the fridge because a leopard does not change it's spots Suzy true form has been revealed. GOODBYE

If I recall, I stated I don't wish to be flamed for my opinion, but it appears you are doing so anyways. Perhaps I think you are frightening for promoting life at all costs, and doing nothing about that life behind the closed doors of your comfortable home. Are you out passing out sandwiches to the abandoned and homeless children? Or are you simply passing judgement on those who simply feel that children are not an entitlement? Seems to me the latter.

Yes, my true form has been revealed. I adore children, and feel that way too many people view children as "rights" rather than human beings who deserve to be loved and conceived for reasons other than because "I can."

Now please don't insult me for my opinions or pass any more judgement. If you don't agree with my opinion, say so. But don't turn insulting over opinions because I guarantee you, yours aint all that worthy either.

Q. · Jan 21, 2003

Originally posted by sanakruz
Wouldn't it make more sense to tx this poor individual prior to the emergency.

Gee, ya think? The problem is identifying these individuals out in the community. Most of them don't utilize health care until it is an emergency, despite education.

WashYaHands · Jan 21, 2003

I think the faith based initiative is a powerful aid in community health. One example is the Parish nurse who provideds preventive health care for the church and surrounding community. They also assist individuals to find community resources (insurance, providers, etc.) so that they can take control over their own health care. These folks simply need a "leg up" in terms of connecting with the health care system. When the professional is a trusted member of the community, it increases compliance.

Another solution that I've seen is having a CNS in the ED who identifies ED frequent fliers, and basically case manages these people and hooks them up with appropriate health care providers outside of the hospital system. The outcome of this program initially cost the hospital about $70,000, but in the long run it saved the hospital 2 million dollars in un-recouped medical expenses.

There are solutions out there other than universal health care, and it's nurses who are taking the initiative to figure it out. We just need to be creative and persistent.

Linda

maureeno · Jan 21, 2003

In the 1990's the average work year expanded by 184 hours. The Bureau of Labor Statistics reported the typical American worked 350 hours more than the typical European. Wage earners in the US ended the century with less pension and health coverage as well as the Industrial West's least amount of vacation time, shortest maternity leaves and shortest average notice of termination. Any wonder stress and depression are epidemic here?

Meanwhile, during the last decade, the 500 largest US corporations eliminated almost 5,000,000 US jobs and tripled their assets and profits. The average real income of the median fifth of families is lower than in 1977. The ratio of pay of corporate CEO's to worker is 400/1.