Is Health Care a Right?

fergus51 · Jan 23, 2003

It's all propaganda Renee! People are brainwashed to think that providing basic care to all citizens will be amazingly expensive and lead to poorer care. When really, we have to pay for their care in the emergency room anyways. Because as far as I understand it, people in emergencies DO have a legal right to treatment (whether they "deserve" it or not). They are supposed to pay, but many can't or don't. So the money comes from the rest of us anyways.

ANnot4me · Jan 23, 2003

I deleted my post.

maureeno · Jan 23, 2003

Because they pay too much in taxes--

To feed the poor and fight the axis--

The rich are truly discommoded.

It spoils the fun of being loaded.

So we should tax the poor instead---

A tax on alms, or day-old bread.

Calvin Trillin

The cost of BushII's proposed elimination of the dividend tax could provide health coverage to 9,000,000 children and fully fund Head Start.

Q. · Jan 23, 2003

Originally posted by maureeno
Article 25, Declaration of Human Rights:
(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.

I don't think anyone disagrees with this right. But what is up for question is who should pay for it? No where does it state in that Article that all those things should be free. And as it is, people are given health care - via free classes that I've taught, the ER, clinic or any other facility in which they present. The problem is that healthcare isn't free, and as our technology advances, so does our cost. It has to be paid for. And not by a select few, but by everyone.

maureeno · Jan 23, 2003

Medicaid represents about 43% of the total federal grant dollars given to states.

Medicaid is a partnership program between the states and federal government. Every state must cover very low income children, pregnant women and some elderly and disabled people and provide them with a defined set of benefits. [states can decide to offer more benefits or to cover more people.] The federal government 'matches' at a per-state rate ranging from $1.00 to $3.28. In 2003 Medicaid spending will be about $280 billion, of this $121 billion will be state funds and $159 billion will be federal funds. In most states Medicaid is the second largest expenditure after education and its costs are growing faster than other expenditures. Due to the recession 44 states reduced Medicaid spending in fiscal year 2002 and at least 41 will act again this year. These cuts mean real hurt for real people.

Today in a talk before the health advocacy group, Families USA, Bill Clinton blasted the tax cut proposals of BushII:

>>He outlined steps to try to halt the growth of the uninsured, such as pruning Bush's proposed $674 billion tax cut and sending money instead to help states shore up health programs for poor people and uninsured children, programs that are being pared by the states' worsening budget crises. {Yahoo News}

Incidently, some of you may have heard the news that the proposed tax cuts would allow a business deduction of $88,000 on the purchase of a Hummer vehicle. This rich nation has plenty of money available for health care coverage.

We just choose different priorities.

TNcanNURSE · Jan 24, 2003

I would like to invite anybody who thinks that all inmates are given this right to wonderful healthcare to go ahead and visit a prison. Having worked as a nurse inside of a prison, I can assure you that prison healthcare isn't completely free. If you are having a heart attack, yes you will be given emergency tx just like the infamous "fred". If you have a less serious complaint then you will be required to pay a 3 dollar co-pay. That copay will seem quite a bit larger if you take into consideration that you would only earn abou 15cents an hour at a part-tjime job. Continue to flame everyone because you believe that healthcare should be free, but do consider that the whole prison-scenario may not be based on fact.

Even some of us more callous members over here in "white bread country":devil: have been without insurance at one time or another. I am sure that I am not the only one who can remember a time in my adult life when I had no money and no insurance. Yet, I still disagree. The reason I had no money was because i was a full time student with a part time job living on a single income that wasn't all that grand. I still managed to pay my own way through school and tough it out. Before I would consider myself as being owed a free ride from the rest of the world I would have quit school and got a job. Because you see life is not always easy and you do have to make your choices.

I think I'll leave this alone now. What was started as a simple question and people expressing their feelings on the subject has just gotten too nasty. Have fun.

Sally_ICURN · Jan 24, 2003

Originally posted by fergus51
WHY DO PEOPLE THINK UNIVERSAL CARE WILL COST MORE?!!

Americans spend MORE per capita and as a percentage of their GDP than Canadians do ALREADY! The problem isn't with the amount of money we spend, it's with HOW it is allocated.

Nicely stated fact. Priorities are all screwed up and billions are mismanaged.

ANnot4me · Jan 24, 2003

How about if we just line up all the poor people and shoot them. Or better yet, let's just deprive them of everything at the base of Maslow's hierarchy and watch them suffer. That's very Christ-like.

TNcanNURSE · Jan 24, 2003

Q. · Jan 24, 2003

Nah, chigap, let's line up the evil "rich, affluent" people like myself and shoot us. If I weren't so damn greedy, there would be less poor people, right?

I'm also going to leave this alone. This is a very sensitive subject for me and I for one and TIRED of paying a higher percentage of taxes. So far no one on this board has ever addressed my issue with this and explained why this is so fair and why I should continue to do it: dole out my money because I was "lucky" in life. Lucky my azz. Everyone states that people like me should try being "poor" one of these days so I can understand. Well, try being married, a property owner and childless and watch as you pay a higher percentage of taxes simply because you got a better paying job because you worked your butt off going to grad school (and, still paying off that loan - DESPITE the higher tax bracket you're in).

Am I bitter? You bet I am. Someone above mentioned priorities are screwed up in this nation. You're right - they are. When I'm paying more in taxes than my neighbor who's driving around a $22,000 vehicle, yeah, priorities are screwed up.

KP RN · Jan 24, 2003

I think we are a nation of financial irresponsibility.

Our economy and stock market are in serious trouble. Unfortunately, many Americans have maxxed out their credit cards, and can't afford their mortgages and car payments...what gives?

I see these commercials all the time promising "no interest for 2 years" or "pay no money til 2006". The bottom line, if you can't afford it, DON'T BUY IT!!

I put myself through college, paid my own rent. I was SO POOR I made my car payment by 13 cents one month, and had to buy generic tampons because I couldn't afford playtex. BUT I always paid for health insurance. Yep, that bill was right up there with my rent and electricity...

Live within your means, and make health insurance a PRIORITY! If you want health care, you need to pay for it one way or another.

maureeno · Jan 24, 2003

Federal Personal Income Tax Rates for 2002

There are six tax rates from 10% to 38.6%.

For single status the figures go:

under $6,000--------- 10%

$6T - $27,950-------- 15%

$27,951-$67,700---- 27%

$67,701-$141,250-- 30%

$141,251-$307,050- 35%

$307,051 or more---- 38.6%

for married filing jointly:

up to $12,000---------- 10%

$12,001-$46,700----- 15%

$46,701-$112,850---- 27%

$112,851-$171,950--- 30%

$171,951-$307,050--- 35%

$307,051 or more------ 38.6%

Note that these rates are on taxable income, meaning minus exemptions and deductions [at least $7,700 for a single person with no dependents]. Note also that everyone pays the same rate for the same income, in other words if I make $50,000 I don't pay 27% of the entire amount, but on the taxable amount over $27,950.

One more note, I haven't seen anyone on this thread demand 'free health care for all'. What I've read is about the sad fact that in America 2003 affordable health care is not available to many.