Is Health Care a Right?

sanakruz, ADN · Jan 18, 2003

Oh and MagRN- Please share with us some stats RE non-citizens leeching our system.Do you have any clue as to where you may find them? Or are you just going to recite the same tired party line of the ignorant?

Suzy- Heaven forbid that inmate had access to an abortion prior to being incarcerated! Pro life any of you? I know you are, Mark

Can I believe my ears? Licensed nurses advocating the suffering of their fellow humans on this planet? Or are you all just whining because you have to pay taxes???

Flo1216 · Jan 18, 2003

KpRN-You are making a blanket generalization about uninsured people, though. I am sure there ARE people who have their priorities all screwed up, but you are talking about MILLIONS of uninsured. They can't all be getting their nails done. And even if they are, so what? It's a helluva lot cheaper than health insurance. Health insurance coverage in NJ for a single, healthy person without children starts at no less than $320 a month. So imagine the cost for a family of four, with medical problems. I really find it hard to believe that all of these uninsured families are spending the money that they should have used on health insurance to buy a brand new Mercedes.

Venti Cappucino · Jan 18, 2003

Exactly... the cost of health insurance can be astronomical.

My partner and I are on a very tight budget. After rent, utilities, her car payment, and food, there's not much left. The only reason we have basic cable is that we got it as a Christmas gift from one of my relatives; otherwise, we couldn't afford it.

As far as health insurance... my job offers none; and hers offers it thru BCBS, but she works for a small business, where almost everyone there is very very sick and is in and out of the hospital, and their premiums are pretty high. It would have cost her $400 a month, for coverage for just her. And, frankly, we just don't have that to spend. We cross our fingers and pray a lot.

We haven't had a vacation in years, we don't eat out other than birthdays, or taking my mom out on mother's day, and we cook a lot of pasta and beans.

Then, unless one of us works somewhere that offers Domestic Partnership benefits, we won't be able to be on a family-plan for insurance.

And I think we're very much like the other millions of folks out there, who just don't have it in their budget. I'm sure there are some folks who decide to go to Disneyworld instead of buying insurance, but I think most folks out there, who don't buy insurance, live in constant fear that something bad will happen.

VickyRN, MSN, DNP, RN · Jan 19, 2003

Thank you for all your thoughful responses (been away from the board for a day). Certainly food for thought. I especially like to hear from the Canadians about their health care system. Sounds like if you compare risks and benefits, the benefits side wins out with the Canadian system.

maureeno · Jan 19, 2003

Article 25 of United Nations resolution 217A[iII] adopted 12-10-1948:

(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.

Sleepyeyes · Jan 19, 2003

I agree that everyone should have access to health care. ]

Lack of medical treatment for some could come back to bite us all in the butt in the form of public health problems for everyone later.

Gromit · Jan 20, 2003

Everyone HAS access to healthcare in the US. NO hospital can turn away an emergency patient, or patient needing life-threatening healthcare. Will they get the best or even complete (cure for the sniffles? NO. It may sound cold-hearted, but I do not intend it to be. I have no problem whatsoever in helping someone who desperately needs it, but I do take offense that someone feels 'entitled' to all the treatments at my expense.

I have lived for extended times w/o coverage, and am happy to have what coverage I have now. When I was without, I did worry about getting sick or injured, but that was life. I don't like seeing anyone have to worry about their health and the bills it can incurr, but to expect a population or even healthcare employees to provide it 'free of charge' is utterly rediculous.

Garbage men do not work for free (if you don't think they are critical, just look to history, especially middle-ages europe and reference the Black Plague). Why should Doctors and nurses (and EMS personnel) ? These people put a lot of time and sacrifice to get their degrees and jobs. I know not everyone can do this, but then not everyone can drive a Lexus, either. Like it or not, healthcare costs money, and if the population that makes more than what the government thinks is poverty, has to cover EVERYONE, then why not provide "free" cars, smokes, TVs and anything else?

When I worked in EMS, many of the down-trodden were my patients, and I felt sorry for them (even though I was only making $8.40/hr in 1995 as a four year paramedic/firefighter) but many of them considdered it a right, and that it was 'owed' them, and the majority of my 'ALS calls' were little more than taxi rides (because 'medicaid or medicare' would pay for it!, I became a bit resentful.

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It is human nature to take advantage of anything that is perceived as 'FREE'.

Again, I would NEVER turn away someone who desperately needed care. But on the other hand, I'm not real sympathetic for someone who brings in a scrape and wants Cadillac treatment.

Socialized medicine will allow the government to set the wages and prices of all healthcare procedures. Suddenly it wont be worth it to take the years of college and residency (depending on your profession) to practice.

Money was not a primary factor for my chosing nursing, but I DO expect to make a decent living for the efforts.

You think the system is overburdoned NOW? Just wait until it gets socialized! HAHAHAHA.

luluann · Jan 20, 2003

Originally posted by KP RN
One aspect that hasn't been mention yet, is what is meant when people say they "can't afford" health insurance. Or is it that they choose to spend their money on other things??
Recently, I read an interesting article in the Wall Street Journal regarding the huge increase in families of middle and upper-middle income who are "taking their chances" and not buying health insurance.
I suspect many (not all) people choose to spend their money elsewhere : vacations, new cars, expensive dining and entertainment. Even people who are barely making it financially are able to afford cable TV and lottery tickets!?!?
I promise you that I am not a wealthy elitist snob here. I just think many many people have their priorities screwed up out there.

My husband is self employed and I recently had to quit my job with a large Health Insurance company so that I can attend nursing school fulltime. I assure you that we are NOT choosing to go without health coverage. I have applied and already been turned down by one company because I was hospitalized 4 years ago with headaches. I am now fine but this company was not about to take the risk. I am currently waiting to hear back from another one. IF this company takes us, we will be paying $300/month and this is for a $5000 family deductible first!!!!! And thank heavens we are done having kids because there is NO maternity coverage. IF I would have decided to continue my plan with my previous employer it would be costing us $700/month. And I worked for THE insurance company!

We have no cable tv, I drive a 5 yo truck while my husband drives a 11 yo van, we havent vacationed in 2 years and don't plan on it until at least 2 years after nursing school. We don't go out and the odds of me getting struck by lightening are probably 10 times better than winning the lottery, so I don't play it.

I think if you did a poll, you would find that the majority of us "Uninsured" are really hard working, responsible people who are in a tough spot.

fergus51 · Jan 20, 2003

Gromit, you don't have to have socialized health care to have universal healthcare. Believe me, even up here in Soviet Canuckistan doctors still find it worthwhile to do their residencies. I don't expect to work for free either.

TNcanNURSE · Jan 20, 2003

I think that free and guaranteed healthcare would be a burden. Anything that can be gotten for free will eventually be abused. Do you think everyone on welfare and foodstamps deserves them. I definitely don't think that those free things are used today in the manner that the were initially intended.

Even convicts in prison have a $3 co/pay which is a lot to them. They pay unless it is a true emergency. Unless I missed something Americans do have the "right" to emergency medical care even if they do not have insurance.

I know a lot of people that have taken jobs just because of the healthcare benefits. Benefits have to be calculated in with salary.

maureeno · Jan 20, 2003

I challenge those nurses complacent and satisfied with persons having the 'right to emergency healthcare' to describe how chronic problems like diabetes and arthritis are to managed in the ER? I also wonder if those nurses believe preventative care is of benefit to individuals and society.

mrnurse2u · Jan 20, 2003

Originally posted by srose
As human beings, regardless of citizenship, past history (including criminal), occupation, or status, I believe we are all entitled to health care. I see it as a right, not necessarily a constitional right, but a human right.

The more I learn about the US healthcare delivery and insurance systems, the more sickened I am. I would rather pay much higher taxes in exchange for a universal or national health care system than be in the system we are now. I think it's disgusting how if someone is ill or injured, they have to base their decision on seeking medical help based on finances.

Why does that disgust you? You don't think the providers

have right to be paid for what they do?

People who feel entitled to health care but don't

do what they can to pay for it disgust me, quite frankly.

We do have high taxes and a broken social-security system

that fund bloated, inflated systems.

Perhaps if people had more self-discipline to save money

for bad times and not act so entitled to everything we wouldn't

have such a messed up system.