Is Health Care a Right?

SmilingBluEyes · Jan 16, 2003

Originally posted by coolh2o
Here is a twist; How about PREVENTATIVE health care being a right? This puts the ownership back on the individual. You make at least a minimal effort to take care of yourself (see a physician once a year for a check-up), you will not be denied treatment-ever. Of course this applies only to non-emergent treatment. Children are included-prevention starts at birth. It is a payroll tax, all working people pay into the pool to offset costs. If you refuse prevention, you wait when you need non-emergent treatment, plain and simple.

Right now Medicare and Medicaid are universal healthcare in its most distorted form. It HAS to be fixed!

that's not a far reach and is common-sense laden. Why can't we do this? It would be so much cheaper in the LONG run.

srose · Jan 17, 2003

As human beings, regardless of citizenship, past history (including criminal), occupation, or status, I believe we are all entitled to health care. I see it as a right, not necessarily a constitional right, but a human right.

The more I learn about the US healthcare delivery and insurance systems, the more sickened I am. I would rather pay much higher taxes in exchange for a universal or national health care system than be in the system we are now. I think it's disgusting how if someone is ill or injured, they have to base their decision on seeking medical help based on finances.

As for prisoners receiving health care, I don't actually have a problem with that. They are entitled. I am not in a position to judge them for being in prison or what they may have done, they are still human, and deserve to be treated as such. The problem that I have is that the same healthcare is not provided to the rest of the needy populations.

As a nursing student, I know that within a few years I am going to be entrenched in this healthcare system and dealing head-on with the flaws inherent in it. That's why I'm seriously considering a move to Canada or the UK (I know, it's hard, but I'm already researching very viable and possible ways that it can happen). Doesn't make me very patriotic, I know.

Rose

Tinkerbell · Jan 17, 2003

I've delt with this from several differant angles in my life.

I was adopted at 10 weeks. My biological mother gave birth to me in a county jail. She was a gogo dancer and a drug addict. Did I deserve to die?

As a child, my single adopted-mother (adopted-father walked out on us when I was 9) worked very hard to support us yet her job didn't offer insurance. We didn't get food stamps or any other goverment assistance besides the fact that I was able to get a hot lunch at school for a reduced rate. - Most of the times, my mom made me take my lunch anyhow. I got sick with scarlet fever. I was hospitilized for almost 4 months. Mom made just to much for us to qualify for Medicade, and my dad would only help out very little. She missed a lot of work being at my side in the hospital. People from our church stepped up to the plate and helped out with food or whatever they could. The hospital ended up writting over 90% of the bill off. (This is one of my reasons for becoming a nurse)

As a grown woman, my computer programmer husband lost his job all of a sudden. I was 4 months pregnant with our son. Ended up having no choice but getting medicade because I knew I had to get care for my baby. I knew it was what was best for him. My records got all messed up with someone else's and medicade had that my baby died when he was born - not true - and the date of conception for 2nd child was 3 days later. (is that even possible??) Even after taking my son to them with his birth certificate with the foot prints on it so they could match his to what I had they refused to change my records and would only pay for things after Jan. 3. My son was born Dec. 31 and I had a postpardum hemmorage that required 4 bags of blood for me to survive. Now my husband and I are over $25,000 in debt and the hospital or doctor refuse to work with us. We're looking at bad credit for a long long time.

The current system fails even those that deserve it. It has to be replaced. Currently we have insurance thru my husband's job and if our premium's go up again this year, we'll have to cancel it because we just can't afford it. I don't know what we'll do. This was just my .02

semstr · Jan 17, 2003

As coming from countries where national healthcare is a human-right, I don't think I have to explain myself any further here.

PS: with all the money going into the "mobilizing of the troops" right now, how long and how many people could be saved?

maureeno · Jan 17, 2003

I appreciate the personal stories written on this thread. They show we are all vulnerable in our lottery style system. Do you think the fact we live in a country where 0.1% [1/10 of 1%] of the population made 86% of the campaign donations in the last election has anything to do with our health care crisis?

RN2B2005 · Jan 17, 2003

To clarify,

It wasn't a matter of who would pay me for the MRI, because under state law, if we treated that patient without consent from her primary care physician, our clinic would NOT be paid at all, by anyone. Even if the mother had paid us out of her pocket, we would be legally obligated to return the money under state law.

She was attempting to accomplish the goal of having her son's knee scanned; however, her feeling was that because we were a medical facility, we were obligated to treat her son even if we knew we wouldn't be paid. It never occurred to her that SHE was obligated as a mother to establish care with her son's PCP before an emergency arose; she had been assigned to the PCP for over a year, but always opted to go the ER route for care for her son.

Many clinics in our area have stopped accepting new Medicaid patients altogether, since they LOSE money every single time one comes through the door; provider payments run about 60% of provider cost. Working at an outpatient radiology clinic, we are affected less by this--lab and radiology services are covered at about 80%--but out of every ten Medicaid patients, probably two are denied for payment entirely. We now require that DSHS patients actually show us their current medical coupon; in the past we just took their word for it, only to find out weeks or months later that the individual didn't have the correct DSHS coverage at the time of the visit, and therefore we're screwed.

It's crass to look at just the money side, but money is what makes healthcare. It's not about cutting doctor's salaries or nurse's salaries, it's about the actual cost of developing and implementing the technology--our state-of-the-art MRI scanner cost $10 million and some change. Take away the money, and you take away the technology--and sometimes the staff.

The Canadian healthcare system, as equitable as it is, is also very slow--non-emergent cases, like knee scans, can wait months for an appointment (our clinic actually does quite a lot of Canadian citizens who would rather shell out cash than wait for the free scan). Both of my personal physicians were trained in Canada but emigrated to the U.S. in order to provide a higher standard of care.

KP RN · Jan 17, 2003

One aspect that hasn't been mention yet, is what is meant when people say they "can't afford" health insurance. Or is it that they choose to spend their money on other things??

Recently, I read an interesting article in the Wall Street Journal regarding the huge increase in families of middle and upper-middle income who are "taking their chances" and not buying health insurance.

I suspect many (not all) people choose to spend their money elsewhere : vacations, new cars, expensive dining and entertainment. Even people who are barely making it financially are able to afford cable TV and lottery tickets!?!?

I promise you that I am not a wealthy elitist snob here. I just think many many people have their priorities screwed up out there.

coolh2o · Jan 17, 2003

Originally posted by KP RN
One aspect that hasn't been mention yet, is what is meant when people say they "can't afford" health insurance. Or is it that they choose to spend their money on other things??
Recently, I read an interesting article in the Wall Street Journal regarding the huge increase in families of middle and upper-middle income who are "taking their chances" and not buying health insurance.
I suspect many (not all) people choose to spend their money elsewhere : vacations, new cars, expensive dining and entertainment. Even people who are barely making it financially are able to afford cable TV and lottery tickets!?!?
I promise you that I am not a wealthy elitist snob here. I just think many many people have their priorities screwed up out there.

This is why I say make it a payroll tax. I work with quite a few people who make good money but take their families and themselves to the county hospital for free treatment. And this is judgemental, but they all have cellphones, cable tv, fingernails and hair done!

nurseman · Jan 18, 2003

Originally posted by Tinkerbell
My records got all messed up with someone else's and medicade had that my baby died when he was born - not true - and the date of conception for 2nd child was 3 days later. (is that even possible??) Even after taking my son to them with his birth certificate with the foot prints on it so they could match his to what I had they refused to change my records and would only pay for things after Jan. 3. My son was born Dec. 31 and I had a postpardum hemmorage that required 4 bags of blood for me to survive. Now my husband and I are over $25,000 in debt and the hospital or doctor refuse to work with us. We're looking at bad credit for a long long time.
The current system fails even those that deserve it. It has to be replaced. Currently we have insurance thru my husband's job and if our premium's go up again this year, we'll have to cancel it because we just can't afford it. I don't know what we'll do. This was just my .02

Recently a close friend of mine had premature twins by emergency c-section. The twins stayed in the hospital for two months. She is a college student and her husband is working a contract position as a computer programmer with no benefits. I worried about her health and the health of the babies. I most certainly did not worry about their financial state. The only time they ever mentioned money and the hospital in the same sentence was when they were talking about the cost of parking.

If I go to the hospital, my doctor or a walk in clinic I give them my health card and then get treatment. I do not like the longer waiting time but I never worry about being refused medical care.

christinemj · Jan 18, 2003

I definitely think that there should be some sort of "universal health care coverage" for all citizens. An income-based sliding scale of premiums and a system of co-pays, could be instituted to ensure that people take on some "responsibility" for their own health care choices, and services aren't abused.

I've had a few "nasty" experiences with medical bills. When I was in college, obviously without any health insurance (could barely afford tuition, how could I afford insurance???) I was in 2 freak accidents/incidents that resulted in both arms being casted (yes, at the same time!)... an "outpatient" orthopedic surgery that turned into a 5 day hospital stay....and a total of 9 months in physical therapy. This happened in 1991. I JUST paid off the last $1700 of those bills LAST MONTH!

My husband and I have been self-employed/small business owners for the last 9 years. At times, we could afford insurance for some or all of the family...at times we couldn't and just PRAYED that we all stayed "safe." My husband has since become eligible for care through a VA hospital, which is located a convenient 2.5 hours from our home. :rolleyes: At one of the times that we didn't have private insurance coverage for my husband, he experienced cardiac problems. Long story, short.....but.....he could have received "free" treatment at the VA center (2.5 hours away, remember). HOWEVER, the physician at our local ER and hospital didn't feel that he was stable enough to transfer. Not feeling quirky enough to pull out all of his own lines and hitch an ambulance ride to the VA hospital, hubby was "treated" at our local hospital. WE are now paying for that entire fiasco out of our pocket...which includes a failed angioplasty, several days in ICU, and a whole bunch of other fun :rolleyes: stuff...to the tune of over $30K. Ahhhhhhh.............. Yes, being the "responsible" adult citizens that we are, we WILL pay every single penny, even if it takes us 'til 2020....(not too big a stretch of the imagination!!....LOL)

All that to say that....YES........I DO think that there should be a "universal health care plan." "Good people" do end up in crappy health-care situations sometimes...........

sanakruz, ADN · Jan 18, 2003

Originally posted by mark_LD_RN
some one explain to me how Frist was directly envolved in defrauding medicare as you propose. Do you not think that it occurs at all hospitals. It was not an actual plan, but just occured by design, when billing goes over a chart and codes it they try to get the most they can especially since medicare pays approx 1/3 the rate. it is not an intention to defraud any one.

as far as the Patients Bill of rights, something had to be done, you should look in my area we just passed tort reform due to all the frivilous law suits, dr were unable to find malpractice insurance. that was not because they were not good doctors. people have abused and used the system now we all have to pay for it.

on the topic of mental health, yes a lot of people need it and to some it is not a medical problem, i worked in psych for over a yr and find that a lot of what people believe is not true, but i agree psych needs more attention. but i still do not believe inmates are entitled to more than the basic health care needs especially ones on death row.just a pure waste of money and effort IMHO

sanakruz, ADN · Jan 18, 2003

Now what is it you think "what alot of people believe is not true????" I'm confused by this statement. ( and how to properly quote someone)