I want to know what nurses think about socialized medicine.

Nurses Activism

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I'm doing a report on Socialized medicine and dont know much about how people feel about it as I live in Idaho.What are any of you Canadian nurses feelings about it? Good or Bad?

Specializes in LTC.

I'd like to ask a simple question that I think has been overlooked, who cares what our Founders would or would not have wanted? First of all, anyone who claims they would be on "your side" in this debate is doing them a disservice, the fact is, no one can say with accuracy what they would or would not do in this situation and secondly, who cares? They're dead. John Adams and Thomas Jefferson died on July 4th 1825 and they were the last of the Founders. That's 16 years shy of two-hundred years that they have all been dead. So, when we examine whether or not health-care is a right, what's the point in offering our interpretation of peoples ideas from 200 years ago? It was a completely different world.

And secondly, the Constitution isn't the Holy Grail, it's not perfect and while I agree that it never explicitly says that health care is a right, I really don't care if it says that or not. I don't form my opinions on a document that was written over 220 years ago.

And secondly, the Constitution isn't the Holy Grail, it's not perfect and while I agree that it never explicitly says that health care is a right, I really don't care if it says that or not. I don't form my opinions on a document that was written over 220 years ago.

i understand what you're saying, but our constitution is the foundation of every type of law...

although it has been subject to wide interpretation.

whatever isn't spelled out, folks end up deferring to the 9th and 10th amendments, where all the fun begins.:lol2:

leslie

Jefferson actually supported publicly funded health care for merchant mariners....Its not much of a leap to extend that support as societal circumstances have changed to support for a form of public health care for all Americans.

Specializes in Med Surg, OB/GYN, Surgery, Home Health.
We do owe something to each other as members of a society.

One of the things that strikes me is that there have been signs of care-giving and healing found in most of the oldest excavations of our ancestors. Healing and care-giving have been given to each other by our ancestors from the earliest times. That in and of itself establishes a basic innate recognition of a human right to health care that predates any conception of organized societies.

Your basic innate recognition of a human right to healthcare would be the compassion of healing and care-giving, not robbing from me and giving to others who have had the chance to prosper and pull themselves up by the bootstraps the way I learned to do. I grew up in a very poor neighborhood and was among those who were looked upon as being dirt poor, but my father decided that his children were not going to be labeled the same way he had been. I was the first in my family (both sides) to graduate from college. I find it very discouraging when those in power and some of us not in power to lower all the standards so those who are "less fortunate" may be able to be taken care of. Well, it is my experience that if there are no expectations, you will not go that extra mile to prove that you are able to. I don't mind helping, I give to my church and also give on a regular basis to four charities. I have heard over the years people stating that a person can be one heartbeat away from being homeless(homeless, by the way, does not always mean one is out on the street or sleeping in cars; it can mean you just don't have a place of your own. You could be living with relatives or friends). I beg to differ with them, I will not be homeless. My fathers display of hard work (working 2 jobs all his life) and his wanting to give his children a future has been enough for me to know that the human spirit is stronger than those in power want us to believe. Times have changed and I'm sure there are plenty of people who don't remember when there wasn't a lot of free things. Those were hard times, I certainly remember, but my family got through it. I'm sorry if I have been rambling on and on, but I just don't understand the mind-set of people who will not or think they cannot take care of their own.:twocents:

Jefferson actually supported publicly funded health care for merchant mariners....Its not much of a leap to extend that support as societal circumstances have changed to support for a form of public health care for all Americans.

It is a bit of a leap. He supported a hospital for those sailors who were turned away by local physicians. Hardly the same kind of bureaucratic, wide sweeping, gov't controlled program we are talking about. Considering his views would be considered libertarian in almost all other regards I don't think you can say Jefferson would be on board. Here are a few classic Jefferson quotes:

"Was the government to prescribe to us our medicine and diet, our bodies would be in such keeping as our souls are now." ~TJ

"A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government ." ~TJ

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

~TJ

your basic innate recognition of a human right to healthcare would be the compassion of healing and care-giving, not robbing from me and giving to others who have had the chance to prosper and pull themselves up by the bootstraps the way i learned to do.

1. you didn't make it on your own. others paid and subsidized the public school you attended. this isn't meant to be harsh. it is a simple statement that you received indirect help from others which was tax funded.

i grew up in a very poor neighborhood and was among those who were looked upon as being dirt poor, but my father decided that his children were not going to be labeled the same way he had been. i was the first in my family (both sides) to graduate from college.

2. obviously your father had a role in your success. my great grandfather was a homesteader in sd. he was a hs graduate in norway but unable to inherit land. he made sure that his children were able to support themselves by sending his daughters to nursing school. he was given land as a homesteader to prove up.

i find it very discouraging when those in power and some of us not in power to lower all the standards so those who are "less fortunate" may be able to be taken care of. well, it is my experience that if there are no expectations, you will not go that extra mile to prove that you are able to.

3. not one person is calling for a lowering of standards or "free things." rather its to make sure that all people have access to affordable health care and to lower the costs of health care for all. undoubtedly we have a responsibility to care and provide for our families but there are responsibilities that are collectively shared. (education, public safety, education etc.) none of us makes it solely on our own.

"as societal circumstances have changed..." He also founded the University of Virginia..

My point is that he was an experimenter and believed in the ability of people to modify their government in response to the challenges posed by changes in society and the economy....

Jefferson is like Tom Paine thinkers from both the left and right look to him for quotations to support their point of view...

"as societal circumstances have changed..." He also founded the University of Virginia..

My point is that he was an experimenter and believed in the ability of people to modify their government in response to the challenges posed by changes in society and the economy....

Jefferson is like Tom Paine thinkers from both the left and right look to him for quotations to support their point of view...

You keep dismissing the fact that he was a small gov't proponent. If you really think he would support this system, find me some proof in his writing.

I think you are trying to use Jefferson's founding of UVA to support the idea that Jefferson was a proponent of other gov't funded social programs. While it is (and was) a public university, UVA was founded to educate the populace to empower them over their gov't. Jefferson believed that without an educated populace the people could not effectively control their government. UVA was founded, in part to serve this goal. So UVA is probably not a great piece of evidence for your claim that he would support other gov't programs. Here's some proof from his writing:

"I have indeed two great measures at heart, without which no republic can maintain itself in strength: 1. That of general education, to enable every man to judge for himself what will secure or endanger his freedom. 2. To divide every county into hundreds, of such size that all the children of each will be within reach of a central school in it." ~Thomas Jefferson to John Tyler

"Of all the views of this law [for public education], none is more important, none more legitimate, than that of rendering the people the safe as they are the ultimate guardians of their own liberty." ~Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Virginia

Taken with his views on a small gov't, his fear of power corrupting, and the possibility that a national health system will empower the gov't to have control over a citizen's life and death, I don't think you can make a strong argument that Jefferson would be on board.

FYI, I graduated from Mr. Jefferson's University.

Specializes in CTICU.

Ya know, I have no attachment to the constitution, since I am not American. I don't base my opinions on the constitution or your founding fathers. My opinion as to the basic right to access to healthcare in a civilized society is mine alone, based on my experiences and belief system. Define as you will.

I am done with this thread - people aren't interested in actually hearing what nurses with experience of UHC think. I don't vote here and I have great insurance - so perhaps I should be satisfied and keep my mouth shut :)

Specializes in Acute Care, Rehab, Palliative.

You are dead right.People aren't all interested in hearing about the actual experiences of nurses that know about UHC.

Specializes in LTC.

I think this thread became completely derailed when we started discussing what we thought the Founders would have wanted in regards to this issue. I've already given my opinion on it.

Specializes in Med Surg, OB/GYN, Surgery, Home Health.
they're dead. john adams and thomas jefferson died on july 4th 1825.....

i think the year was 1826, exactly 50 years after the declaration was signed and the last founding father was not john adams or jefferson, it was charles carroll who died november 14th, 1832. his son donated the homestead of 140 acres and the house to john hopkins university which became the main campus.

and secondly, the constitution isn't the holy grail, it's not perfect and while i agree that it never explicitly says that health care is a right, i really don't care if it says that or not. i don't form my opinions on a document that was written over 220 years ago.

i do think it is the holy grail along with the declaration of independence and the magna carta. i hold these documents in high esteem along with the brave men and women who risked life and limb to give you and me the freedoms we enjoy. i, too, am finished with this thread for other reasons not mentioned here, but very obvious.:bow:

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