Controversial Michael Moore Flick 'Sicko' Will Compare U.S. Health Care with Cuba's - page 61

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  1. by   BBFRN
    Most of the groups advocating for universal health care are bipartisan, because this is a bipartisan issue. MM did not make any partisan points in the film, and the fact of the matter is Dems can't blame Reps for the health care fiasco- it wasn't caused by the Republicans.
  2. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Quote from Baptized_By_Fire
    Most of the groups advocating for universal health care are bipartisan, because this is a bipartisan issue. MM did not make any partisan points in the film, and the fact of the matter is Dems can't blame Reps for the health care fiasco- it wasn't caused by the Republicans.
    MM made the claim that Cuba has better healthcare than can be found here. You don't find that the least bit partisan? It CERTAINLY isn't factual, unless you can get access to a 'tourist' hospital. To do that, you have to be part of the gov't elite, or, a tourist.

    Go to S. Florida and find out just how many Cuban nationals send medicines (or dollars to buy medicines) over to their loved ones back on the island, meds they can't get there. There ARE dollar drugstores completely stocked in Cuba. To use them, you simply have to pay in dollars, something that most cannot do.

    It doesn't pass the smell test that Cuba has better healthcare. Would YOU prefer to go to a Cuban hospital (not a 'tourist' hospital, but an everyday Cuban facility), as opposed to the one around the corner?

    Arguing that Cuba has better healthcare based on statistics at the U.N. that - surprise - Cuba self reports about, is like saying that the VA has the best healthcare in the United States (based upon misrepresentations by the VA). Anybody that knows anything about what is being claimed knows it's just a bold faced lie. You have to be very gullible or very partisan to believe it.

    If this is the standard we are going to use to determine what's best, then MY POV is the best in this debate. Why? Because the National Organization of the Opinions of Timothy (NOOT) just released a survey saying that it has conclusively reached a consensus that my ideas are best. So, the debate is over. I win. The 'facts' back me up. I mean, you can't dispute that, now, can you?

    IF I posted what Rush Limbaugh has to say about healthcare, how many 'progressives' here would seriously debate it with me, as opposed to dismissing it, outright. Hint, MM is no different.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    Last edit by ZASHAGALKA on Aug 20, '07
  3. by   ZASHAGALKA
    http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=2538

    "Earlier in the day, a Cuban had stopped me on the street, pulled out his asthmatic child's puffer, and asked for help in getting it refilled. He could not get the drug, he explained, but I, as a tourist, could. Begging for medicines is common in Havana - next to begging for money to feed children, it is the most common plea - because the government won't use its scarce foreign exchange to import basic drugs that the populace needs. Doctors won't even prescribe drugs for the poor that aren't available in the local pharmacies - the state frowns upon that - but many will write the name of the drug that's needed on a scrap of paper.

    "This is what you need," the doctors will tell desperate patients, in effect sending them out into the streets on a mission of what can amount to life or death for themselves or their children. Cubans with access to dollars - typically those in the tourist industry who receive tips in dollars - can obtain the drugs they need. Others have relatives in the United States who can ship them. The rest - middle class Cubans included - must resort to begging, the black market or, increasingly, to prostitution."


    Yes, I can see how gov't run healthcare is better based simply on the fact that it's gov't run. I would much rather resort to prostitution or begging to get meds then to use my current coverage.

    http://www.cubaverdad.net/references...itter_pill.htm

    "Indeed, tourist hospitals in Cuba are well-stocked with the latest equipment and imported medicines, said a Cuban pediatrician, who did not want to be identified. Cuban doctors also specialize in treating Parkinson's disease and retinatis pigmentosa, a hereditary disease that causes night blindness and can eventually result in complete loss of sight. "Tourists have everything they need," said the pediatrician, who spoke on the condition he would not be identified in any way. "But for Cubans, it's different. Unless you work with tourists or have a relative in Miami sending you money, you will not be able to get what you need if you are sick in Cuba. As a doctor, I find it disgusting."

    "But for most Cubans, the question of who is financing health care is rather academic. "We have nothing," said Jasmin, a nurse who lives in Moron. "I haven't seen Aspirin in a Cuban store here for more than a year. If you have any pills in your purse, I'll take them. Even if they have passed their expiry date."


    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    Last edit by ZASHAGALKA on Aug 20, '07
  4. by   BBFRN
    Quote from ZASHAGALKA
    MM made the claim that Cuba has better healthcare than can be found here. You don't find that the least bit partisan? It CERTAINLY isn't factual.
    No, I don't find that partisan. It was Clinton's administration that reformed health care to the point we see it today, so how can we blame the Republicans for that?


    Quote from ZASHAGALKA
    If this is the standard we are going to use to determine what's best, then MY POV is the best in this debate. Why? Because the National Organization of the Opinions of Timothy (NOOT) just released a survey saying that it has conclusively reached a consensus that my ideas are best. So, the debate is over. I win. The 'facts' back me up. I mean, you can't dispute that, now, can you?
    Since you do have some very good ideas and opinions, I would be inclined to join NOOT, if possible. :spin:

    Quote from ZASHAGALKA
    IF I posted what Rush Limbaugh has to say about healthcare, how many 'progressives' here would seriously debate it with me, as opposed to dismissing it, outright. Hint, MM is no different.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    I don't know how many would dismiss it outright- I know I personally wouldn't. Even though I am a "progressive", I do listen to conservative talk radio, and I watch O'Reilly every night (whom I actually agree with 50% of the time). We are not all cut & dry, black & white, or inflexible in our beliefs.
  5. by   marvelous_truth
    Quote "I watch O'Reilly every night"

    Sorry to hear that.

    Honest healthcare is the answer...
    https://allnurses.com/forums/f287/fr...ge-243861.html
    Last edit by marvelous_truth on Aug 20, '07
  6. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from Baptized_By_Fire
    No, I don't find that partisan. It was Clinton's administration that reformed health care to the point we see it today, so how can we blame the Republicans for that?




    Since you do have some very good ideas and opinions, I would be inclined to join NOOT, if possible. :spin:



    I don't know how many would dismiss it outright- I know I personally wouldn't. Even though I am a "progressive", I do listen to conservative talk radio, and I watch O'Reilly every night (whom I actually agree with 50% of the time). We are not all cut & dry, black & white, or inflexible in our beliefs.
    I'm a member of "NOOT".

    I watch O'Reilly but sometimes find him smarmy. I like Hannity more but that show drives me crazy since no one can just have a conversation and they all talk over each other.

    I love Rush Limbaugh and WOULD actually take him over MM any day of the week. I love it that he gives liberals first place in line and lets them converse for a long time and doesn't talk over them.

    As to MM . . . . his theories have so many holes in them that it is pretty easy to see he is partisan and wrong.

    steph
  7. by   BBFRN
    Quote from marvelous_truth
    Quote "I watch O'Reilly every night"

    Sorry to hear that.
    Why? I don't agree with all of his POVs, but he's a very smart guy, and he makes me think.

    And why do you keep coming on this thread and advertising your other threads? If I thought they were interesting when I looked at the title, I would've posted on them already.

    I've already independently researched Ron Paul, but thanks.
  8. by   marvelous_truth
    Quote from Baptized_By_Fire
    Why? I don't agree with all of his POVs, but he's a very smart guy, and he makes me think.

    And why do you keep coming on this thread and advertising your other threads? If I thought they were interesting when I looked at the title, I would've posted on them already.

    I've already independently researched Ron Paul, but thanks.
    Lots of people are very smart, but personally I would choose the inspiration of a man of intelligence and wisdom like RON PAUL who has the solutions that Moore does not (which is why I posted here). I wouldnt worship any of thenm to the point of watching religiously every night, especuially a propaganda promoter such as O rielly who like ALL cartel owned media avoids many of the Facts and the objective reality regarding economic policy and foriegn policy. He cant even understand Constitutional money and economy how can he have any legitimate foundation for political discussion? Which is also rejecting the rediscovering of the sound principles that founded our constitution and our rights.

    For a smart person why cant Orielly interview G Edward griffin, Aaron Russo, Bernard Von Not Haus, or even Devvy Kidd for that matter, and many others. Only the Propaganda is fair and balanced not the truth.
    Last edit by marvelous_truth on Aug 20, '07
  9. by   BBFRN
    Oh give me a break. No need to be paranoid of people you don't agree with, be it MM, O'Reilly, Rush, etc.

    Lots of people have different view points, and just because someone is syndicated or makes a movie, doesn't make them propaganda machines.

    I like to hear what different people have to say, as long as they're not nuts.
  10. by   CHATSDALE
    bad words and dirty names
    i wrote a long BRILLANT post and it disappeared into cyperspace
    here i go again
    i don't see many more nurses and patients trying to get into the usa than viceversa
    many nurses believe that when national health care come in they will no longer have to pay medical insurance, medical part of car insurance,
    that their pay will go up and the ration of nurses to patients will go down
    that anytime they want to see the doctor and have a procedure done all they have to do is ask and they will be welcomed with open arms
    doctors do not have to participate in the program, the doctors that do can only handle a certain amount the excess from the one who decline
    if you really believe that mm is smart enough to plan and implement the health care system that has been debated for years then maybe you ae a little naive
    me: i am surprised he got potty trained
  11. by   BBFRN
    Quote from CHATSDALE
    many nurses believe that when national health care come in they will no longer have to pay medical insurance, medical part of car insurance,
    that their pay will go up and the ration of nurses to patients will go down
    that anytime they want to see the doctor and have a procedure done all they have to do is ask and they will be welcomed with open arms
    doctors do not have to participate in the program, the doctors that do can only handle a certain amount the excess from the one who decline
    if you really believe that mm is smart enough to plan and implement the health care system that has been debated for years then maybe you ae a little naive
    me: i am surprised he got potty trained
    I have not heard from any nurses that believe any of the above points.

    And I don't think anyone here is saying MM should be the one to plan and implement our health care system.
  12. by   marvelous_truth
    Quote from Baptized_By_Fire
    Oh give me a break. No need to be paranoid of people you don't agree with, be it MM, O'Reilly, Rush, etc.

    Lots of people have different view points, and just because someone is syndicated or makes a movie, doesn't make them propaganda machines.

    I like to hear what different people have to say, as long as they're not nuts.

    I can respect the taste to hear what others have to say,
    I prefer to hear what people have to say when it represents the objective reality and shows true value of freedom and our soviergnty and our God inspired constitution not the "conservative" in sheeps clothing versions.

    Alex Jones does that better than the people who you have mentioned that are paranoid of the facts regarding economic and foriegn policy.

    I believe Micheal Moore just sells any trash people will buy and is paranoid of the same facts reegarding economic policy.
  13. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Quote from marvelous_truth
    I can respect the taste to hear what others have to say,
    I prefer to hear what people have to say when it represents the objective reality and shows true value of freedom and our soviergnty and our God inspired constitution not the "conservative" in sheeps clothing versions.
    Is FoxNews conservative oriented? Yes.

    Is CNN liberal oriented? Yes.

    The difference is that, for YEARS, there was no choice but the Clinton News Network. Now, there is a choice. Don't like Fox? Don't watch it.

    I wish I had had that choice when CNN was the only game in town. In fact, now I do.

    Complain about lack of 'objective reality' if you wish, but that lack of objectivity is near universal. EVERYBODY has an ax to grind. The drive-by media lost its right to claim objectivity, decades ago. That's what happens when you confuse commentary for news too many times.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    Last edit by ZASHAGALKA on Aug 21, '07

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