I wasn't sure where else to post this, so here goes:
I am looking into nursing school. I'm debating between nursing school and a graphic design program. They're at different schools, so campus environment and program finish time are two important factors, but another came to mind that I need to know before I start...
(I'm 16, almost 17, so I might not even be able to start nursing classes until I'm 18, but I'm trying to get it together...)
Anyway, I am pro-life. I do not agree with abortion and I am morally opposed to it. It isn't a religious thing; I'm not religious - I just don't approve. I want to know, if, as a nurse, if I would be required to assist with abortions. I figured that one way to get around this would be to work in a children's hospital, but the children's hospital here doesn't have a very high turnover rate.
I posted this for a few reasons: 1) to find out what the chances are that I could avoid working in a unit where abortions are done, 2) to get feedback and advice from experienced nurses, 3) to get feedback from nurses who may not have wanted to assist but had to, anyway.
I didn't post this to get a lecture - if you really feel the need, PM me about it.
Thanks for any advice or feedback. This is my second post here (if I remember right,) and I've been away from the internet for a while. I have several terminally ill family members and serious finanical strains. I'm trying to get it together.
I am impressed that you are taking your own life seriously! Good for you and good for those who love you. You will make a choice (graphic arts / nursing) and perhaps along the way do both! The one benefit from a nursing career is that you can reinvent yourself along the way. You can provide direct care, public health, management, research etc. I am less familiar with the other career path. As far as the pro-life business, you will find a way to live your life according to your values--even as a nurse. You seem to be very thoughtful, so I am pretty sure you would find a way to avoid assisting in an abortion in the future. Good luck!
If your goal is simply to avoid working on a unit that does induced abortions, that shouldn't be the least bit difficult - just don't work in an abortion clinic or in OB/GYN. There are dozens of other specialties to choose from.
If you'd be conflicted about working in an institution that does induced abortions, you could look into Catholic hospitals.
As far as the children's hospital idea goes - the peds hospitals where I am take patients up to 18 years old, and sometimes even older if they have chronic diseases and have been long-term patients there. Unless you do neonatology (which has its own set of ethical issues just as sticky as abortion), some of your patients will be adolescent girls. I don't think it's typical for peds hospitals to do induced abortions onsite, but what if you're called on to transport a pregnant patient to another facility to have it done? What if you have a patient who recently had an abortion? If you think it would be difficult to deal with them without imposing your beliefs or compromising your integrity, then peds may not be the best choice. How about geriatrics?
Good luck with your career decisions and with your home situation.
Best wishes, Marion
A Catholic hopsital where I used to work did abortions, except they called them D&C's. I had no idea what we were actually doing. I'm not sure that every D&C was actually an AB but was shocked that any were. Not sure how the one who told me knew, really.
To OP: you can easily avoid doing AB's. Best wishes to you.
According to my nursing school foundations of nursing book, by Christensen, you can ask to be removed from direct care during an abortion but you cannot be excused from care AFTER an abortion. So if a woman appears on your floor post abortion you can still care for her. I am still in school, but I imagine all sorts of circumstances could come up where your values don't jive with the car you must legally give. What about drug addicts, convicts, alcohol abusers who need a liver? Spouse/child molesters who are now in your care? Not arguing just pondering 'aloud'. Lots to think on and we have to be professionals at all times. That's #1 patient care!
Of course you can still be a nurse and not assist in abortions.
Really, it depends on what level you want to call an abortion. I've worked with an MD who refused to order Plan B. He was more than willing to contact someone else to do it, but he was against it with his religious beliefs because there could have been a child conceived (so even if a urine hcg was negative, it was a no go for him, since conception could have just occured). If you really wanted to get in depth with it, what about the mother who has an ectopic pregnancy that needs a tube removed- the baby is still alive but probably will not survive and will probably kill the mother if allowed to progress. You might face those in the ER/OR/gyn.
Then there's the whole "when does life begin" debate...Listening to a Doctor radio show today and they were discussing frozen embryos. His stance was that technically, embryos are NOT FROZEN BABIES! He said life is not always viable at that point....just another thing to muddy the waters.
hi, it's nice to see someone your age thinking about the future, and be narrowed down to two areas at that. i found it interesting you are between nursing and graphic design since they are fairly different. right now, it might be difficult for you to choose so i thought i'd offer a few similarities and differences. i am in nursing and my husband is an architect.
similarities - people/client interaction, use of technology, creativity, critical thinking, decent math skills
differences - work hours, pay, dealing with 'goo' :), scrubs vs. business attire, exposure to biohazardous material, length of program (depending on your area), interest in disease processes, many areas of specialty, tons of job
demand
i love nursing and have found it to be very rewarding so far, and i haven't even graduated yet!
i know you weren't necessarily looking for this kind of reply but i thought i'd offer my thoughts for you to take or leave. good luck with whatever you choose. have a great day! sharla
I will not assist with abortions. Some Catholic hospitals may get around this but not all of them do by any means; I prefer to work in a Catholic hospital. And no it's not the same as not wanting to take care of a child abuser. The difference is that I am not being asked to help him abuse a child. Drug users? We all have a lot of them. If the drug is prescribed, they need it for pain, I'm glad to give it. Nothing at all to do with helping them be drug ABUSERS.
How impressive that at your young age you are thinking this through. I am also very pro life and will NEVER assist in an abortion. No one can force you to do something you are ethically opposed to doing. I am a nursing student hoping to go in to OB/GYN, but there have to be ways around doing it. I am sure that they can have someone else assist who doesn't have a problem with it.....personally, I probably couldn't even be in the building knowing what was happening. But that's me.
BTW, on a somewhat more general note, licensed professionals who have power over people's health (nurses, doctors, therapists, etc.) all have some code of ethics that they are required to follow whether they agree with them or not. I'm not saying we need to force anyone into doing abortions, I'm just saying that there are naturally some ethical standards that professionals cannot freely deviate from (e.g. if I'm a Psychologist I can't start up romantic relationships with my patients just because I think it's morally okay... it's against the code of ethics, period). I suspect this is at the root of some organizations' (like the American Medical Association) disagreement with the Bush administration's version of the rule.
and on that note, the original Hippocratic oath in greek involved swearing "I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion."...they changed it very recently. abortion was considered immoral even by ancient greek pagans. of course, *nods to partisan politics* they weren't silly enough to treat abortion and capital punishment as separate moral issues - the prohibition on the two kinds of killing is a clause of the same sentence for them.
a few questions:
if I worked in OBGYN or L&D in a catholic hospital, would I be safe from being expected to assist in abortions?
if I worked in prisons, would I be safe from assisting in the death penalty? I'm not sure if I could stomach working full time in a prison to begin with, but "you visited me in prison" is a good standard for getting into heaven (and one of the only clear ones Jesus ever gave...funny how well-to-do christians almost universally ignore this one...I'm not sure I even believe in heaven, but it's a good suggestion anyway)
According to my nursing school foundations of nursing book, by Christensen, you can ask to be removed from direct care during an abortion but you cannot be excused from care AFTER an abortion. So if a woman appears on your floor post abortion you can still care for her. I am still in school, but I imagine all sorts of circumstances could come up where your values don't jive with the car you must legally give. What about drug addicts, convicts, alcohol abusers who need a liver? Spouse/child molesters who are now in your care? Not arguing just pondering 'aloud'. Lots to think on and we have to be professionals at all times. That's #1 patient care!
Very thoughtfully worded. Part of our job is taking care of people we don't agree with or even feel are deserving of anything at all. Believe me, you'll take care of plenty of people you wouldn't pee on if they were on fire. But here's the thing. When I have my nurse hat on, I'm there to do a job. My personal opinion means nothing. I do the best job I can. Aside from their medical history, what the patient did before they were under my care is irrelevant. My role is to focus on their medical care. I leave the morality and legal stuff to the clergy and the judge. I have my opinions of course, but I try to keep them to myself and focus on what I'm trained to do. I think that's what professionals do.
Very thoughtfully worded. Part of our job is taking care of people we don't agree with or even feel are deserving of anything at all. Believe me, you'll take care of plenty of people you wouldn't pee on if they were on fire. But here's the thing. When I have my nurse hat on, I'm there to do a job. My personal opinion means nothing. I do the best job I can. Aside from their medical history, what the patient did before they were under my care is irrelevant. My role is to focus on their medical care. I leave the morality and legal stuff to the clergy and the judge. I have my opinions of course, but I try to keep them to myself and focus on what I'm trained to do. I think that's what professionals do.
I agree with this also. If you become a nurse, there will be moral issues that you will face almost on a daily basis. As long as you keep your own morals intact and in check, you can still be a wonderful nurse. Remember, as a nurse, you are there to help the patient get better, no matter what they are there for. So many people will do things that you would never do because of your beliefs and morals, but it is not up to us to judge our patients .It is up to us to care for the patients so that they can heal and have a positive environment. We can try our hardest to provide this for them, but as nurses we can only do so much.
I think maybe you should look at the bigger picture. You can most definitely avoid abortions in your nursing career (and executions) But, it will be hard to avoid other things that might bother you. What about 95 year old grandma that has been in the nursing home unable to speak or do anything at all that shows she still has brain activity... and then she is trying to die (like God intended) and the family wants to put her on a ventilator and give her drugs that bring her blood pressure up but turn her hands and feet blue from the side effects???
A Catholic hopsital where I used to work did abortions, except they called them D&C's. I had no idea what we were actually doing. I'm not sure that every D&C was actually an AB but was shocked that any were. Not sure how the one who told me knew, really.
To OP: you can easily avoid doing AB's. Best wishes to you.
D&C is the *method* used. D&C is used for miscarriages where the fetus isn't expelled naturally by the uterus- (important to do because if you have an early term miscarriage you don't want the fetus left in there...) This is not an abortion- as the fetus was not viable/living.
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yai J, RN
34 Posts
I am impressed that you are taking your own life seriously! Good for you and good for those who love you. You will make a choice (graphic arts / nursing) and perhaps along the way do both! The one benefit from a nursing career is that you can reinvent yourself along the way. You can provide direct care, public health, management, research etc. I am less familiar with the other career path. As far as the pro-life business, you will find a way to live your life according to your values--even as a nurse. You seem to be very thoughtful, so I am pretty sure you would find a way to avoid assisting in an abortion in the future. Good luck!