Nurses will do the CNA job

loriangel14, RN · Sep 5, 2008

We have no aids at my hospital so everyone does their own pt care.

Keysnurse2008 · Sep 5, 2008

rn does not stand for rather not!. we do whatever needs to be done!

i heard that some hospitals are requiring nurses do the cna jobs. just want to know if this is true or not.

Atheos · Sep 5, 2008

I was under the impression that CNA's were doing the nurses' job. Don't quote me on it but we are there to assist the nurse in their job by doing things that don't quite require a license but is still the nurses' responsibility.

We are nurses assistants! Assisting the nurse with their job!

DusktilDawn · Sep 5, 2008

I was under the impression that CNA's were doing the nurses' job. Don't quote me on it but we are there to assist the nurse in their job by doing things that don't quite require a license but is still the nurses' responsibility.
We are nurses assistants! Assisting the nurse with their job!

Um, no you were hired to your own job, not mine. Aspects of our job description overlap with the CNA's. Meaning that I can do all aspects of your job, but as a CNA, you cannot do my job. As nurses we are responsible in a supervisory capacity according to the SBONs, in the real world we certainly aren't always viewed that way since we lack the autonomy that a supervisor would have. Basically, we can be held accountable and responsible for things you do or don't do, as a supervisor would, we just don't have the authority or autonomy to take action on the things you do or don't do that a true supervisor would have. Unfortunately, this is exactly what causes a lot of issues between CNAs and nurses.

CNAs are there for the patient first and foremost, not the nurse. How well a CNA does their job directly impacts how well I can do mine infinately more than the reverse. How well my shift may go is directly influenced by the caliber of the CNA I work with.

JB2007, ASN, RN · Sep 5, 2008

I will help the CNA's with reisident's ADLs anytime I can. Personally, I would give my manager a big hug if she would pull me off the med chart work as a aid. In fact, I have told her repeatedly that I would enjoy it if she would. So far it has not happened. I worked as a CNA for several years before becoming a nurse and I think I enjoyed being an aid more than being a nurse most days. It was hard work, but I got to spend more time with the residents.

hellerd2003, RN · Sep 5, 2008

I work in ICU, and we never have CNA's.

This may be unpopular, but in an ICU setting I'm *glad* I don't have an aide. I'm one of those nurses who really doesn't mind the "dirty" side of nursing. I want to see every inch of my patient's skin, watch their response to turning, manage their lines/ IV sites during turns, and manage the vent tubing during repositioning. The assessment info I get during baths and bedpan duties is invaluable, and I'm hesitant to leave them to another person.

That said, I think that a med-surg or step-down unit absolutely NEEDS CNA's. There's no way to get the work done without one! Additionally, if a patient needs "basic" cares (i.e. bedpan duty), a RN should NEVER just dump it on a CNA. Guess what? Nurses, no matter what their education level, should be comfortable cleaning people/ dealing with bedpans, etc.

Atheos · Sep 5, 2008

Um, no you were hired to your own job, not mine. Aspects of our job description overlap with the CNA's. Meaning that I can do all aspects of your job, but as a CNA, you cannot do my job. As nurses we are responsible in a supervisory capacity according to the SBONs, in the real world we certainly aren't always viewed that way since we lack the autonomy that a supervisor would have. Basically, we can be held accountable and responsible for things you do or don't do, as a supervisor would, we just don't have the authority or autonomy to take action on the things you do or don't do that a true supervisor would have. Unfortunately, this is exactly what causes a lot of issues between CNAs and nurses.
CNAs are there for the patient first and foremost, not the nurse. How well a CNA does their job directly impacts how well I can do mine infinately more than the reverse. How well my shift may go is directly influenced by the caliber of the CNA I work with.

What you said is what I was alluding to. Yes it is my own job, but the duties we do ARE your job. Someone just decided some of those things nurses used to do, and some still have too, could be done by CNAs.

I was saying that what we do as CNAs IS a nurses job or they wouldn't teach it to you...

It's like a teacher and TA. The TA's job is basically the part of the teacher's job. The teacher just gives some of it to the TA to assist. The TA could not do the Teacher's full job though... Same with nurses and CNAs.

I never said CNAs were there to do your whole job but what CNA's do is part of your job. Some hospitals give that portion of YOUR job to Techs/CNAs and some don't... That is why nurses are responsible.

You can delegate tasks but NOT responsibility. Some of YOUR tasks come to me but you retain the responsibilty. Which is why I do right by my patients AND my nurses...

locolorenzo22, BSN, RN · Sep 5, 2008

That's it. Often CNAs are given horrible ratios to work with...even worse than the nurses. I do what I can, when I can, but I don't know how I'd survive without them. If I had less patients(like in ICU), I would do team nursing. But I am NEVER above putting someone on a bedpan, feeding someone, or giving a bath, or wiping a butt. It's what we do. You will find yourself on the short end of a lot of tempers if you don't help out.

pagandeva2000, LPN · Sep 5, 2008

I was always taught that CNAs are extensions of nurses, in that they do a part of the nurse's job that the licensed person is responsible and accountable for. What is unfortunate is that there is not enough of any of us to go around. I work per diem on med-surg on alternate weekends and I have seen two floors actually share a CNA/PCA on the weekends...this distinctly shows for one-just how short they really are and also, that patient care does not come first according to management. Thus far, the nurses on ICU and Step down have really stuck together (at least so far, with the experiences I have had since coming there).

Personally, (and I repeatedly say this) I believe that there is enough at the table for all to partake-meaning that everyone can have a piece of the pie. I'd rather have a CNA, to allow me to administer the host of meds that I have to give, but that wouldn't mean that I wouldn't assist them when I can. The problem (at least in my facility), is that the ratio is so high, orders from the physicians can be so screwed up, and so many other interferences involved, that most of the caring nurses are unable to assist as often as they wish. SO much senseless document care over patient care and even co-worker care/consideration/appreciation.

imanedrn · Sep 6, 2008

Not sure exactly what OP was referring to. Sometimes certain units will do "total care". There are no CNA's, so each nurse then has less patients and does "total care" for each patient.
But nurses have always done some CNA work. There seems to be a misconception in the "general public" that there is a strict line between what a nurse and a CNA does. But health care is a team effort. I've been a nurse 17 years, and I've emptied MANY bedpans, MANY foleys, and other such tasks.
There are a few lazy and pathetic nurses out there who refuse to do things like empty a bedpan. More than once I've seen a nurse spend 10 minutes looking for the CNA to empty a bedpan - when the nurse could have emptied the bedpan herself and been done with it in 2 or 3 minutes! Duh!!! What about the poor patient having to wait 10 minutes for the nurse to find the CNA?? The patient should come first!
There are times when a nurse has to prioritize tasks though. Sometimes we must delegate. If I have a patient in chest pain and another needing off the bedpan - well, the chest pain must take priority! Sometimes CNAs and patients don't get this....

I think most newer nurses, (myself included, until I learned otherwise!), esp. at newer facilities (or at least facilities with newer amenities, functions, management, the like), are used to expecting a CNA to do what is now considered "CNA" work.

While in nursing school, I had several instructors teach us that we are NEVER above giving a bed bath, etc. (listing what some would call "CNA" work without EVER referring to them specifically as such) because this person is OUR patient, and we are responsible for THEIR care -- regardless of from whom it comes. One instructor (with whom I forged a deep bond and who I had for 2 semesters) actually would tell the charge nurse and CNAs that the CNAs were NOT to do their "normal" tasks for OUR patients, and we were to provide TOTAL PATIENT CARE. I am very thankful for that experience now, though, at the time, I had no idea how valuable it would be and, of course, thought it more of an irritation.

On the unit I currently work, we have a 6:1 nurse to patient ratio with 12:1 CNA to patient ratio. These CNAs have "expected" tasks to perform, but I am NEVER above helping -- and I regularly offer. Most politely refuse. Some definitely take it, esp. when half of their load (which is my FULL load) ALL need their butts wiped at 1730 hrs!

Delegation, though, is important, yes -- whether you have support staff or not. If I'm in the middle of passing meds (esp. if I'm running behind!), and a patient needs a bedpan, for example, I will first check to see if my CNA is busy. Whatever she's doing (knee deep in poop or just plain ole vitals), if she is truly busy, I will help MY patient. Ultimately, it's my responsibility anyway.

SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN · Sep 6, 2008

As has been said, every UAP task is a nursing duty that can delegated because it does not require licensure.

Heck, I'm no longer a floor nurse, and have gladly relieved them here and there so that they could run to the cafeteria or potty. If toileting or emesis come into the equation, well, so be it. I keep a change of clothing at work because one never knows.

May I never consider myself "above" caring for someone in need.

egglady, LPN · Sep 6, 2008

The "CNA job" is the heart of nursing. It is the hands on care and nurturing that as professional nurses, we no longer have time for ( because we are too busy doing paper work). I LOVE the moments when I can help to feed someone or even to clean them up. we need to remember how valuable our CNA's are, and also admire the "hands on" time they get with our patients or residents.