Nurses Promoting COVID Misinformation

[Tigerlily8]

I am aware of a former colleague (RN) who is frequently posting inaccurate information on Twitter. She is discouraging social distancing, wearing masks and mandatory vaccination. She recently has been promoting the use of unproven medications to treat Covid-19 and states the pandemic is a hoax. This behavior reflects poorly on all health care providers, especially nurses. I don’t know what I could do other than reporting her to the Texas BON. Any ideas?

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

11 hours ago, Gooday said:

We did what we needed to do to save lives.  I am grateful for operation light speed and the right to try law passed by President Trump.   He has saved lives.  Real science takes time.  Prolonged use of Protonix can lead to C-diff, yet every senior home in the country uses it.  We did not know it could lead to C-diff until it had been used for years. That's why I think all the name-calling needs to stop.  Using the scientific method requires time.   A lot of people keep making matter-of-fact statements about this vaccine.  We were told that we needed 1 shot then 2, now we need a booster and some scientists are saying we might need yearly shots like the flu. They just don't know.  Real believers in science, observe people who have taken the vaccine or medication and observe and record their findings, after this vaccine has been on the market for some years we will have data as we do with Hep B and some of our other long-term vaccines.  Until then science does not accuse or attack, it observes and allows people to make decisions based on the principle of autonomy.    So far the data has been promising as more data comes in more of the people holding out will get the shot.  

You are deluded if you think that science will just roll out in an orderly and progressive fashion during a pandemic.  Did you not take a semester of public health?  How can we possible know all the answers before we do what we HAVE to do ASAP, which is get people vaccinated...in the entire world.  Think about that a moment.  Comparing C-diff with Protonix to Covid vaccine isn't a valid comparison.  We KNOW that people should not be on Protonix for a long time for a multitude of reasons.  We've known that for a long time.  But c-diff, as problematical as it is, it NOTHING compared to Covid.  Do you really think that c-diff has killed almost 700,000 in the USA alone.  Has it overwhelmed hospitals and created a more severe nursing crisis?  And another reason your argument isn't sound is because vaccines don't have long term consequences.  Problems appear quickly. Please feel free to show me a problem from a vaccine that appeared months or years later.  Otherwise your reasoning is flawed.

[OrangeSlushie, RN]

23 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Do you believe that your right to free speech means that you can say whatever you want, when and where you want, without any consequences?

That is the definition of free speech. Just because I may not agree with something that somebody says, it does not give me the right to prevent them from speaking. As my dear wise father used to say "I may not agree with what you're saying, but I'll fight to the death for your right to say it."  We've lost that sentiment as a country and it saddens me.

That is how division comes about. One side villainizes the other, believes whole-heartedly that they are stupid and/or evil and need to be silenced.   When was the last time you recommended to someone who was having relationship problems to NOT talk about the problem to the other person in the relationship?  Well, this country is in a serious relationship problem and we need to be able to talk about things, all things.  What is truth shall be seen to be truth and what is nonsense will be seen to be nonsense when the sunlight is allowed to shine in.  Forcing silence is the worst option, and sadly, so prevalent in this age of censorship.

[toomuchbaloney]

14 minutes ago, OrangeSlushie said:

That is the definition of free speech. Just because I may not agree with something that somebody says, it does not give me the right to prevent them from speaking. As my dear wise father used to say "I may not agree with what you're saying, but I'll fight to the death for your right to say it."  We've lost that sentiment as a country and it saddens me.

That is how division comes about. One side villainizes the other, believes whole-heartedly that they are stupid and/or evil and need to be silenced.   When was the last time you recommended to someone who was having relationship problems to NOT talk about the problem to the other person in the relationship?  Well, this country is in a serious relationship problem and we need to be able to talk about things, all things.  What is truth shall be seen to be truth and what is nonsense will be seen to be nonsense when the sunlight is allowed to shine in.  Forcing silence is the worst option, and sadly, so prevalent in this age of censorship.

Who is prevented from speaking? That seems like hyperbole.  No voice is silenced on this platform unless they violate the terms of service that they agreed to voluntarily.  

You must not live in the USA, there is no censorship of antivaxx nonsense here. There is no forced silence.  

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

1 hour ago, OrangeSlushie said:

That is the definition of free speech. Just because I may not agree with something that somebody says, it does not give me the right to prevent them from speaking. As my dear wise father used to say "I may not agree with what you're saying, but I'll fight to the death for your right to say it."  We've lost that sentiment as a country and it saddens me.

That is how division comes about. One side villainizes the other, believes whole-heartedly that they are stupid and/or evil and need to be silenced.   When was the last time you recommended to someone who was having relationship problems to NOT talk about the problem to the other person in the relationship?  Well, this country is in a serious relationship problem and we need to be able to talk about things, all things.  What is truth shall be seen to be truth and what is nonsense will be seen to be nonsense when the sunlight is allowed to shine in.  Forcing silence is the worst option, and sadly, so prevalent in this age of censorship.

No, that is not the definition of free speech.  The Supreme Court has ruled otherwise a long, long time ago.

[Gooday]

23 hours ago, MunoRN said:

Your suggestion that we still don't know if the risks of the vaccine are worse than the risks of Covid are reckless and dangerous, I would say you should be ashamed but I haven't found that people spreading Covid misinformation are capable of that.

This is what I mean by abuse.  I did not say what you said.   You created an argument,  said I said it which I did not.  My statement above was not what you accused me of saying.  What you are doing is called gaslighting.   When someone expresses a legitimate concern, rather than discussion you demonize and try to make them feel like their concern is not valid.   Its what abusive people do to there mates.   Gaslighting is a form of manipulation that occurs in abusive relationships. It is an insidious and sometimes covert type of emotional abuse where the bully or abuser makes the target question their judgments and reality. 1 Ultimately, the victim of gaslighting starts to wonder if they are losing their sanity.    

My suggestion was that we will know more about this vaccine in the coming years through legitimate study and long-term use.  

[Charlcie, BSN, RN]

1 hour ago, Gooday said:

My suggestion was that we will know more about this vaccine in the coming years through legitimate study and long-term use.  

Many of the people spreading misinformation do not believe the current research. So in 10 years what is going to change? If the vaccine is declared safe with zero long term effects are those spreading propaganda going to get vaccinated? I have my doubts ?‍♂️

[toomuchbaloney]

12 hours ago, Gooday said:

My suggestion was that we will know more about this vaccine in the coming years through legitimate study and long-term use.  

There has already been and continues to be "legitimate" study on these vaccines.  There is no reason to be concerned about long term use or side effects to vaccination. 

Why do you keep posting as if there is reason to be concerned about these vaccines?

[MaxAttack, BSN, RN]

12 hours ago, Gooday said:

My suggestion was that we will know more about this vaccine In the coming years through legitimate study and long-term use.  

This doesn't track with what we know historically about vaccines. Side effects are apparent within months. In a 20-year review of vaccines published in 2020, only one vaccine had been withdrawn for safety and it was studied and removed within the year.

Gaslighting is trying to convince people that the covid vaccine could be the first vaccine in history to have some unknown long-term side effect that doesn't appear until years later. That doesn't happen with vaccines. Physiologically that wouldn't even make sense. Vaccines are in and out quickly. The heavy long-term lifting happens with your body's own immune system.

[nursej22, MSN, RN]

It is disingenuous to assume that 1-3 minuscule doses of RNA could have the same effect as daily use of a medication such as Vioxx or ranitidine. 

[toomuchbaloney]

18 minutes ago, nursej22 said:

It is disingenuous to assume that 1-3 minuscule doses of RNA could have the same effect as daily use of a medication such as Vioxx or ranitidine. 

It could just be honest ignorance...right?

[MunoRN, RN]

13 hours ago, Gooday said:

This is what I mean by abuse.  I did not say what you said.   You created an argument,  said I said it which I did not.  My statement above was not what you accused me of saying.  What you are doing is called gaslighting.   When someone expresses a legitimate concern, rather than discussion you demonize and try to make them feel like their concern is not valid.   Its what abusive people do to there mates.   Gaslighting is a form of manipulation that occurs in abusive relationships. It is an insidious and sometimes covert type of emotional abuse where the bully or abuser makes the target question their judgments and reality. 1 Ultimately, the victim of gaslighting starts to wonder if they are losing their sanity.    

My suggestion was that we will know more about this vaccine in the coming years through legitimate study and long-term use.  

What you said was that the science of vaccination was in doubt because "A lot of people keep making matter-of-fact statements about this vaccine.  We were told that we needed 1 shot then 2, now we need a booster and some scientists are saying we might need yearly shots like the flu. They just don't know.  Real believers in science, observe people who have taken the vaccine or medication and observe and record their findings,".

First, your suggestion that we haven't done studies on the vaccines or collected data on the effects (intended and adverse) is not correct.  

It's also not correct that it was not known that the antibodies we produce in response to a Coronavirus are not life-long.  

"Gaslighting" involves messing with someone's understanding of reality through things like misinformation.  You might reconsider who the gaslighter here is.

[Gooday]

17 hours ago, Charlcie said:

I don't think so, the adult vaccination rate in the US was 66% a couple of weeks ago,  the over 65 vaccination rate is 83%.   There are a few hold outs, but most of the people who need to be vaccinated as of this week 77% are vaccinated.   Most of the holdouts are people who have real concerns.  Only 9% of Americans are antivaxxers,  that means they are against all vaccines. another 7% are borderline.   The percentage of hold outs from the Covid vaccine is minimal so these dooms day predictions need to stop.   Im a veteran, so I have probably had more vaccines than anyone on this forum yet immature people make rude comments about people who have concerns about being vaccinated and call them anti-vaxxers,  old fashioned abusive gaslighting.   This whole debate started because I said some people have real concerns,  I held out because I tend to experience side effects from everything not because I'm against anything, I eventually got it because at my age the risk of getting Covid is high. Not one of the angry abusive comments offered a solution.  You could have said," if you have bad reactions to vaccines have your doctor go over the ingredients in the vaccine and do a allergy test see if you are allergic to anything those ingredients.   I would wager that many of the hold outs have had similar problems in the pass and that's why they are waiting.   I had a patient who was refusing a treatment that was really needed,  this was back when nurses where in your face.  One of the nurses would tell the patient off to try and get her too cooperate, she was an old school RN and she would scream at everyone, CNA's, LVNs,  patients, family members everyone.   It just made that patient more stubborn.  Older people don't like people trying to tell them off or manipulate them. That patient would yell at everyone, I started laughing with the patient and joking, and explained everything,  the patient responded and we got it done.  I have had quite a few patients like that, its a common problem working with seniors.  We forget that as nurses one of our jobs is community nursing,  those hold outs are part of the community, even the nursing community are our patients.  We address their concerns and honor their choices.   We love honor and serve them to get them to trust our medical judgement,  gaslighting and abuse makes enemies and causes more division and more hold outs.   We are not the masters of our community, we are servants, we convince people by gaining their trust,  we do not force them or threaten them or mock. Autonomy is everyone's right period.  That screaming charge nurse got fired for screaming at everyone.