Nurses and the Presidential Election 2004

pickledpepperRN · Jan 4, 2004

Kevin, while I agree that NURSES need to control nursing I have a bit of information and ideas to complicate your post:

"Recruitment: Why do we, as a profession, need the government to recruit more members into our profession? Are we not proud enough of who and what we are to do our own recruiting? Frankly, were I just getting ready to choose a career, I would feel very wary of any profession (other than the military) that needed government help to recruit new members. I'd wonder why nurses, a nursing organization, wasn't doing more work along those lines. And as I considered the possible reasons for needing the government to help, I'd probably decide to look elsewhere for a career. "

Here in California there are four to eight year waiting lists for admission to schools of nursing. High school grads with excellent grades and SATs do not get in. Those whose families have nore dollars go to the very few private schools of nursing.

The police departments, fire and emergency personnel, teachers, and others are recruited with tax money.

The California Nurses association lobbied for and formed the Board of Nursing to license nurses in 1905. That was before women could even vote!

Prior to the formation of the BRN nursing standards were determined by individual hospitals.

Most healthcare is tax paid now.

The Medicare, government workers healthcare, prisoners, military, VA, Medicaid, and county programs are just a few ways we pay for healthcare.

Why not Medicare for all?

Hellllllo Nurse, BSN, RN · Jan 5, 2004

re: "Do our own recruiting...."

When potential nurses ask me if nursing is a good career choice. I am honest with them- in today's environment and with the current working conditions, no it is not, IMO. And when asked, I tell them so.

kmchugh · Jan 5, 2004

Originally posted by Hellllllo Nurse
re: "Do our own recruiting...."

When potential nurses ask me if nursing is a good career choice. I am honest with them- in today's environment and with the current working conditions, no it is not, IMO. And when asked, I tell them so.

I commend you for being honest. (I say much the same thing, with the exception that if the potential nurse wants to enter advanced practice nursing, then it is a career worth pursuing.)

So, what you are saying is that since you must be honest, we need the government to lie for us?

And at the risk for being flamed for repeating myself, if the environment and working conditions are so bad, it is up to us to fix the problems, not the government. This is not a field where hospitals could fire their entire work force and go find just anyone to replace us. We as a profession will have no power until we take the power.

And my reasoning for feeling this way isn't from some conservative viewpoint. I just have a pretty good feeling for how politics (both Republican and Democrat) works. Both sides of the coin will play to the big money. In health care, big money means the hospital associations. If we rely on the government to fix the problems, we are in for a looooooong wait.

KM

kmchugh · Jan 5, 2004

Originally posted by spacenurse
Why not Medicare for all?

Cause most of us don't want the government to run health care? Cause most of us don't want to pay 75% income tax?

Cause most of us don't want the government to have access to our medical records (believe me, if they are paying, they will want access)?

KM

gwenith, BSN, RN · Jan 5, 2004

Kevin we have free health care and it does not cost 75% tax. Our goverement does NOT have access to our medical records and if you are worried about that you can still go private.

kmchugh · Jan 5, 2004

Originally posted by gwenith
Kevin we have free health care and it does not cost 75% tax. Our goverement does NOT have access to our medical records and if you are worried about that you can still go private.

Gwenith

That was a "from the hip" answer. But in truth, there are a lot of reasons that many of us do not want the government involved in health care. But that's not what this thread is about. Go back and find the thread "Is health care a right" for more info.

KM

KarenAR · Jan 6, 2004

Whether or not we believe that the government should be involved in the health care industry is -- for the purposes of THIS discussion topic -- largely irrelevant. The FACT of the matter is that the government IS involved heavily in the health care industry today and that is highly unlikely to change.

THEREFORE, the '04 presidential candidates need to have SOMETHING to say!

Personally, I think Bush is an idiot. Either that or downright evil. Maybe both. So I'll be voting for whoever the Democrat is. Unless it's Clark. Then I don't know what I'll do...

Geeg · Jan 7, 2004

If the government gets involved they will inevitably come down on the money side, which is the American Hosp Assoc and the AMA. This would not be good for nursing. Keep the gov out of it, we don't need them to be lobbied, even more, by the hospitals which want to import and endless supply of cheap labor and drive down wages.

Gldngrl · Jan 8, 2004

Originally posted by kmchugh
"...Just about one year ago, I worked for an anesthesia group that worked the CRNA's 60 to 80 hours a week, and the docs were working even longer hours. There were five CRNA's in the group. I was the first to vote with my feet. I found another job, and quit. That group has since lost two more CRNA's as well as at least two physicians. Ultimately, in an environment where there is a short supply of nurses, the employees have the power."
The employees have the power of personal choice, not the power to change the status quo. There is a difference and leaving a facility rarely improves conditions or create change, although it may be necessary for one's own health.

Home Health Columnist / Guide · Feb 4, 2004

Get to know the Presidential Candidates

As part of our endorsement process, ANA has distributed questionnaires to the candidates and is conducting candidate interviews to learn more about their positions on nursing and health care issues. Once the interview process is complete, the questionnaire responses and results of the interviews will be made available online and ANA members will be asked to vote at ANA's virtual polling booth. Member feedback is an important component of ANA's presidential endorsement process. In the meantime we wanted to provide you with resources to learn more about each of the campaigns**.

http://vocusgr.vocus.com/grconvert1/webpub/ana/Profile.asp?Entity=PRAsset&EntityID=521&XSL=Asset&PublishType=GR+Asset

You are able to easily access each candidates nursing postions and webite links.

roxannekkb · Feb 5, 2004

Originally posted by kmchugh
I read over several of these proposals, and they all seem to be pretty similar. Frankly, I think that overall, they appear to be pretty good plans. But a question occurred to me as I was reading them.

Why do we need the government to step in and fix our problems? Face the facts: Of the all healthcare professions, there are by far and away more nurses than any other provider. I don't have the statistics in front of me, but there may be more nurses than all other healthcare professionals combined. Numbers mean strength, and strength means power to make changes. We just have to wield that power. Look at some of the major points of these plans, and ask yourself "can government do a better job of fixing these problems than we can?"

-Mandatory overtime: I think we probably all agree that mandatory overtime is a horrendous policy. It puts patient safety and the health of nurses at risk. There is a nursing shortage, and hospitals are trying to compensate for that by making nurses work more and more. You know why? Because nurses are collectively allowing them to do it. There are some who are standing up and saying no, but why don't we all do that? Because there are a huge number of us who for whatever reason (fear, intimidation, or even just out of concern for patients) that aren't standing up to say no. Just about one year ago, I worked for an anesthesia group that worked the CRNA's 60 to 80 hours a week, and the docs were working even longer hours. There were five CRNA's in the group. I was the first to vote with my feet. I found another job, and quit. That group has since lost two more CRNA's as well as at least two physicians. Ultimately, in an environment where there is a short supply of nurses, the employees have the power.

-Recruitment: Why do we, as a profession, need the government to recruit more members into our profession? Are we not proud enough of who and what we are to do our own recruiting? Frankly, were I just getting ready to choose a career, I would feel very wary of any profession (other than the military) that needed government help to recruit new members. I'd wonder why nurses, a nursing organization, wasn't doing more work along those lines. And as I considered the possible reasons for needing the government to help, I'd probably decide to look elsewhere for a career.

I could go on and on, talking about pay rates, safe working conditions, etc, but I think you get the point. We, as nurses, know better what we need to improve our lives than the government does. What we don't have is one real organization that represents us. (As a CRNA, I have the AANA, which is very good, but they only represent CRNA's.) Oh, sure, the ANA could do it, but somehow, that organization is just not very good at it. They publish "position papers," but what they really want is to get the government to make the changes. The ANA is divided and fractionated, trying to make everyone happy. With divided goals, it does a poor job of addressing the fundamental concern of all nurses.

And, as some of you have pointed out, politicians of every stripe are long on words, but short on any real action.

We as nurses need to organize. We need one organization with the guts to stand up and speak for all nurses. We as nurses need to give allegiance to our profession, and join that organization. That organization needs to be able to call for a strike at a hospital, a hospital chain, or even nationally, and nurses must be willing to support that call. The sole focus of this organization must be the issues and problems that face nurses every day. They need to stay away from the minutiae that has paralyzed the ANA. It must be a labor organization. This organization needs to be the voice of all nurses in matters of labor and safety, from the nurse's aid to the Ph.D. Dean of Nursing at the university.

Most of you know me as a conservative, but this isn't about liberal versus conservative. I'm not suggesting in any way that you should vote for any specific candidate. That's up to you. What I am suggesting is that rather than rely on the government to fix our problems, we need to take ownership of those problems, and fix them ourselves. We need to fix them in a way that best meets our needs, and not in a way that best suits a politician's needs.

The organization must start somewhere. Why not here?

Sjoe says it repeatedly, and it bears repeating here: "We will get exactly as much crap as we will take."

Kevin McHugh

Kevin, you are so right. I agree with many of the points you raised.. Nurses are in a position to wield a lot of clout, but don't. I don't know how many times I have encountered that whiney, "but what can we do? We can't do anything. We have to do it. We don't have a choice." And so on. I was always labeled a troublemaker because I refused to be floated, demanded overtime, refused to cheated out of pay, refused to take abuse from patient families and doctors, and so on.

If nursing provided good pay, safe and supportive working conditions, decent schedules, and nurses were treated with respect, there would be no need for these massive recruitment efforts. Afterall, are there ads being run for becoming lawyers, doctors or accountants? Are we seeing Johnson & Johnson running an ad to "gloss up" the image of stockbrokers, and bring more people into the field?

The politicians can talk until the day is long, but nurses have to act. Most nurses end up quitting, rather than fighting. And the fight does get old, when you're almost at it alone. If nurses want improvments, then they are just going to have to demand it. Start by saying no to unsafe assignments, mandatory overtime, and being pushed around. Too many nurses still have that martyr image ingrained in them, as though it's a crime to be paid well as a nurse, or to demand to be treated with respect and not like a hospital service that's thrown in with the laundry.

Quite honestly, the government can't fix the problem. No matter what they might mandate, it will never be enough if nurses themselves don't organize and demand changes.

Nurses are the largest group of healthcare workers. The system would fall apart without nurses. Nursing has such potential power, but just doesn't use it.

-jt · Feb 5, 2004

Unionized nurses can and do ---- because they cant be fired for it. But the majority of nurses in this country are not unionized and have no such protections from heavy-handed retaliation by employers. I dont think its so much a martyr syndrome affecting those other nurses (although there is that problem in nursing). But its more that they have the fact that they can be fired at will hanging over their heads. And they would rather quit than be fired and have a termination sitting on their work record, following them around their entire career, having to be explained with each new job application.