KarenAR

Well, I checked back in after a while away...wanted to see where the thread I started ended up. Was EXTREMELY DISAPPOINTED to see that it turned into yet another string of personal attacks and bickering over a topic OTHER THAN the OP. Mercyteapot and NurseGuy, you two in particular should have just taken your bickering offline and into the PM realm. You hijacked the thread Back to the OP: The problem is not one individual pharmacist, but rather the climate of "morality" that allows people to feel justified in judging others' actions and policing their neighbors. What's that thing in the Bible about a speck in the other person's eye versus the log in your own??? And how about the fact that (1) some BC pills are prescribed for things other than contraception, and (2) most Viagara scripts are not prescribed to promote procreation. The part of the issue that I find most disturbing is the fact that states are passing laws that protect pharmacists who consider themselves the "prescription police." Kwtlpn: Can you give more details about Planned Parenthood's work in this area? I went to their site at one point, and had a hard time finding info or links to "action" steps. Thanks.

Because it's not about the pharmacist's own personal beliefs; it's about the pharmacist wanting to dictate the patient's actions according to those beliefs. Because it's not about the pharmacist minding his own business and doing his job; it's about judging the patient. Because it's not about protecting the pharmacist from having to take part in something he doesn't believe in; it's about the pharmacist wanting to take away the patient's choice. Because it's not about pharmacy policy; it's about political policy. Because it's not about doing what's right; it's about doing what's "righteous." And because it's not just a prescription; it's a witch hunt. And it's ridiculous. And it has to stop. But it won't stop if we let it keep going. :angryfire

So, what can nurses do about this? What can citizens do about this? It IS only going to get worse. If you had told me 3 months ago that I'd be reading this in the news today, I would have said, "Things are bad, but they're not going to be THAT bad 3 months from now." I would have been wrong. WE NEED TO GET VOCAL!!!!!! This is not even about abortion, you know. It's about "empowering" people to sit in judgment of other people's actions. I wonder if these same pharmacists refuse to fill Viagra prescriptions, on the basis of sex being meant purely for procreational purposes? I don't have the stats, but I'd venture a guess that most Viagra patients are married to women beyond childbearing years... And here's what my mom (a preacher's wife, no less!) had to say about it. I liked her response so much, I thought I'd share it: When a pharmacist is this much into not dispensing drugs with significant mechanisms to stop human life, they'd better be VERY up on all the side effects of everything they dispense. And they'd better advise CVS not to sell peanuts, since peanut allergy kills many children. And they'd better be sure none of their stores sell narcotics or cigarettes, etc. Heck, for that matter, they better be sure they don't sell water in their stores, either. Too much of that can drown a person. I'd add that if they're working in CVS, they really have a problem since most of the products they sell are used in and even promote the seven deadly sins: PRIDE (mirrors, cosmetics), SLOTH (lawn chairs, foot massagers, TV Guide), GREED (books on business success and making money), GLUTTONY (Snickers, Doritos, Cokes, Oreos), LUST (pretty much any magazine on the shelf, cosmetics again), ANGER (I know it's not something they "sell," but do rude cashiers count?), ENVY (anything that promises it's better than the competition or will make you prettier or smarter or in any way better than your neighbor)...

(Sorry in advance if not supposed to post articles...haven't been on the site in a while and can't find the rules about this.) Thought you all would want to know about this. -K. ========== From http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=710&e=1&u=/usatoday/druggistsrefusetogiveoutpill Druggists Refuse to Give Out Pill By Charisse Jones, USA TODAY For a year, Julee Lacey stopped in a CVS pharmacy near her home in a Fort Worth suburb to get refills of her birth-control pills. Then one day last March, the pharmacist refused to fill Lacey's prescription because she did not believe in birth control. "I was shocked," says Lacey, 33, who was not able to get her prescription until the next day and missed taking one of her pills. "Their job is not to regulate what people take or do. It's just to fill the prescription that was ordered by my physician." Some pharmacists, however, disagree and refuse on moral grounds to fill prescriptions for contraceptives. And states from Rhode Island to Washington have proposed laws that would protect such decisions. Mississippi enacted a sweeping statute that went into effect in July that allows health care providers, including pharmacists, to not participate in procedures that go against their conscience. South Dakota and Arkansas already had laws that protect a pharmacist's right to refuse to dispense medicines. Ten other states considered similar bills this year. The American Pharmacists Association, with 50,000 members, has a policy that says druggists can refuse to fill prescriptions if they object on moral grounds, but they must make arrangements so a patient can still get the pills. Yet some pharmacists have refused to hand the prescription to another druggist to fill. In Madison, Wis., a pharmacist faces possible disciplinary action by the state pharmacy board for refusing to transfer a woman's prescription for birth-control pills to another druggist or to give the slip back to her. He would not refill it because of his religious views. Some advocates for women's reproductive rights are worried that such actions by pharmacists and legislatures are gaining momentum. The U.S. House of Representatives passed a provision in September that would block federal funds from local, state and federal authorities if they make health care workers perform, pay for or make referrals for abortions. "We have always understood that the battles about abortion were just the tip of a larger ideological iceberg, and that it's really birth control that they're after also," says Gloria Feldt, president of Planned Parenthood (news - web sites) Federation of America. "The explosion in the number of legislative initiatives and the number of individuals who are just saying, 'We're not going to fill that prescription for you because we don't believe in it' is astonishing," she said. Pharmacists have moved to the front of the debate because of such drugs as the "morning-after" pill, which is emergency contraception that can prevent fertilization if taken within 120 hours of unprotected intercourse. While some pharmacists cite religious reasons for opposing birth control, others believe life begins with fertilization and see hormonal contraceptives, and the morning-after pill in particular, as capable of causing an abortion. "I refuse to dispense a drug with a significant mechanism to stop human life," says Karen Brauer, president of the 1,500-member Pharmacists for Life International. Brauer was fired in 1996 after she refused to refill a prescription for birth-control pills at a Kmart in the Cincinnati suburb of Delhi Township. Lacey, of North Richland Hills, Texas, filed a complaint with the Texas Board of Pharmacy after her prescription was refused in March. In February, another Texas pharmacist at an Eckerd drug store in Denton wouldn't give contraceptives to a woman who was said to be a rape victim. In the Madison case, pharmacist Neil Noesen, 30, after refusing to refill a birth-control prescription, did not transfer it to another pharmacist or return it to the woman. She was able to get her prescription refilled two days later at the same pharmacy, but she missed a pill because of the delay. She filed a complaint after the incident occurred in the summer of 2002 in Menomonie, Wis. Christopher Klein, spokesman for Wisconsin's Department of Regulation and Licensing, says the issue is that Noesen didn't transfer or return the prescription. A hearing was held in October. The most severe punishment would be revoking Noesen's pharmacist license, but Klein says that is unlikely. Susan Winckler, spokeswoman and staff counsel for the American Pharmacists Association, says it is rare that pharmacists refuse to fill a prescription for moral reasons. She says it is even less common for a pharmacist to refuse to provide a referral. "The reality is every one of those instances is one too many," Winckler says. "Our policy supports stepping away but not obstructing." In the 1970s, because of abortion and sterilization, some states adopted refusal clauses to allow certain health care professionals to opt out of providing those services. The issue re-emerged in the 1990s, says Adam Sonfield of the Alan Guttmacher Institute, which researches reproductive issues. Sonfield says medical workers, insurers and employers increasingly want the right to refuse certain services because of medical developments, such as the "morning-after" pill, embryonic stem-cell research and assisted suicide. "The more health care items you have that people feel are controversial, some people are going to object and want to opt out of being a part of that," he says. In Wisconsin, a petition drive is underway to revive a proposed law that would protect pharmacists who refuse to prescribe drugs they believe could cause an abortion or be used for assisted suicide. "It just recognizes that pharmacists should not be forced to choose between their consciences and their livelihoods," says Matt Sande of Pro-Life Wisconsin. "They should not be compelled to become parties to abortion."

I'm not saying you were wrong at all...in fact, I think you are totally "in the right." But - does the chain of command start with speaking directly to the person you're having the problem with, and then going to the supervisor if/when that fails? (I'm genuinely asking here...) Even if you technically should have started by talking to Charge Nurse directly, I can certainly see why you didn't! "Freaky" seems to be an understatement (?). I am baffled as to how Charge Nurse gets to be Charge Nurse when she acts so childish...and I am baffled as to why should would bring your family into it at all? Weird. Does she know your family and/or do her kids go to school with your kids? If so, I would definitely take her comments as a threat and would go up EVERY STEP of the chain of command (including the DON and the HR dept.) until I found someone willing to address this issue with Charge Nurse. (She should be severely reprimanded for her statements and retaliatory actions.) You are right on the money turning in this writeup to the DON, in my opinion. BTW, I also think you handled it very well and very professionally when she brought your family into it. This was a great response: Good job! You kept a "cool head" and said exactly what you should have said here. Called her on it and set the boundaries!

Had it twice this past winter...two cases just two months apart. The second one was the doozy. Kept me out of work for 2 weeks straight b/c the first antibiotic (Augmentin) did not do the trick. So my doc then put me on a fluoroquinolone (can't remember which one). I gargled with salt water - which did nothing. Then I started gargling with 1/2-strength hydrogen peroxide. That and the new antibiotic kicked strep's butt.

RealNurseWitch - My first magazine job was for a company headed by a ROYAL jerk. He and I were like oil & water. Thankfully everyone else I worked with there was wonderful (except for two others, who were the jerk's brother and sister). At that job, in 1995, I was salaried at $12,000 a year, working full time and plenty of overtime, and had NO benefits. But it was the only real magazine publisher in town, and we did put out good products that we could be proud of, so I stayed for a while. Finally got a raise - to a whopping $14,000/year. Then finally decided I couldn't afford to work there anymore, so I left. Was a crappy job situation, but gave me good experience!!!

Heart: Yep, I forgot to mention it was an accelerated program!!! I think if it had been a "full-length" program, I probably would not have finished nursing school. But my program was so fast, I was out and working before finally deciding that nursing (at least bedside nursing) is not for me! Hellllllo Nurse: I am so sorry that the career you'd rather be in has "dried up" like that. I think it is really cool that you love that work, though. I don't hear that about manufacturing very often. Pretty cool! Well, here's hoping the industry makes a comeback in the U.S. for you and everyone else in the same boat! ; ) RealNurseWitch: There's lots of stuff you can do with art/design/illustration (as I'm sure you know already!). Have you ever thought of being a designer for a company that produces health-related products (anything from pharmaceutical packaging to promotional pens to patient education materials or patient education websites or nonprofit health organizations' websites, etc.)? Don't give up on it, if it is your dream. I also thought there weren't any jobs in editing where I'm living now, but I found a great one via careerbuilder.com. You can sign up to get e-mails on jobs that match your interests...and just keep that info coming to you while you continue to work as an RN. Just curious, how was your first design job "a miserable failure"?

Bob, I'm curious: Did you mean that you worked in another field before nursing, and you can't go back for some reason? Or did you mean you didn't work in something else, but would switch back to it if you had?

Bob, I'm curious: Did you mean that you worked in another field before nursing, and you can't go back for some reason? Or did you mean you didn't work in something else, but would switch back to it if you had?

Thank you, Angel337! Yep, I stuck it out as long as I could, knowing that the first year is especially hard, and not wanting to give up too soon. If I were 10 years younger, I probably could have stuck it out longer, and it would've gotten easier. But I knew that staying in it would be a surefire route to misery, for me, at this point in my life. You should look into writing for Nursing Spectrum! They want writers who are RNs. It could be a good segue for you. Feel free to PM me if you want more info on that! Thanks again! :)

Thank you, Angel337! Yep, I stuck it out as long as I could, knowing that the first year is especially hard, and not wanting to give up too soon. If I were 10 years younger, I probably could have stuck it out longer, and it would've gotten easier. But I knew that staying in it would be a surefire route to misery, for me, at this point in my life. You should look into writing for Nursing Spectrum! They want writers who are RNs. It could be a good segue for you. Feel free to PM me if you want more info on that! Thanks again! :)

Hi there - I was a magazine editor until starting nursing school in May 2002. Graduated from nursing school in August 2003 and started working as an RN in September 2003. Passed the boards with flying colors, doing well at work according to supervisors and colleagues... ...but not liking the job! Just curious: Any other 2nd career nurses considering going back to their "old" jobs? (I actually have already resigned from the hospital and will start a new editing job in 2 weeks...so my decision's already made!) .

Brenda, I'm not an oncology nurse. I just found this site online: http://www.prostate.com/ProstateCancer/ProstateCancer.asp I hope it helps. My dad is going for an ultrasound of his prostate, and possible biopsy, tomorrow, so I'll be reading through this info too.

No one else in my family is a nurse, so they don't "get it." My husband is in a completely different field and doesn't "get it." My kids are too young to "get it." But you guys all "get it." In nursing school, I used to come to the site to read posts by "real nurses" to see what kinds of issues you/they faced, and to read about specialties I was considering. Once I graduated, it was a way to explore/express frustrations that I was having as a new nurse that I didn't feel comfortable sharing with new co-workers. Now, I am actually leaving nursing after less than a year on the job. But I'll probably still come to AllNurses.com because I am ADDICTED too! I was coming to the site pretty regularly to discuss politics...alas, those discussions usually deteriorate pretty quickly and I start to get angry and tense... :angryfire BUT THEN - teeituptom sneaks in some short, funny comment in his signature style, with that signature line, "keep it in the short grass, y'all" - and it always puts a smile on my face! :) :) :)