Nurses are Not Doctors

Nurses General Nursing

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An article appeared today in the New York Times as a followup to a bill passed in New York granting nurse practitioners the right to provide primary care without the oversight of a physician. The authors of the bill state "mandatory collaboration with a physician no longer serves a clinical purpose and reduces much-needed access to primary care". The need for more primary care providers is due to the shortage of primary-care physicians, the aging boomer population, and the Affordable Care Act.

Although the president of the American Association of Nurse Practitioners feels that the current "hierarchical, physician-centric structure" is not necessary, many physicians disagree citing that the clinical importance of the physician's expertise is being underestimated and that the cost-effectiveness of nurse practitioners is being over-estimated.

Many physicians also feel that "nurse practitioners are worthy professionals and are absolutely essential to patient care. But they are not doctors."

What are your thoughts on this? Where do nurse practitioners fit into the healthcare hierarchy?

For the complete article go to Nurses are Not Doctors

Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.

As far as online NP schools and standardization. I think we need more standardization and I don't love online-only format for those that have access to hands on.

There is a minimum competency exam which safeguards entry to practice.

I have never seen or heard of any NP program which requires only "theory" courses. Please share one.

Specializes in Nephrology, Cardiology, ER, ICU.

I practice in IL, home to the all-powerfual AMA! (said tongue in cheek).

I am employed in a large nephrology practice and though I have a collaborating MD, in fact 17 of them, in the 8 years I've been here there are several physicians Ive never even met.

Like others here, I carry my own malpractice and work very autonomously. Works for me.

Specializes in Oncology.

If you're worried about NP standardization, only see certified NP's. That should be easy since almost all hospitals and practices here mandate certification.

Specializes in OB-Gyn/Primary Care/Ambulatory Leadership.

I have never seen or heard of any NP program which requires only "theory" courses. Please share one.

I asked this same question earlier, as a couple people were claiming that there are online NP programs that require little to no clinicals. I asked them to please cite me an example. Funny, none were forthcoming.

Specializes in OB-Gyn/Primary Care/Ambulatory Leadership.
Because their training is foot specific, they don't learn EKG interpretation or neurotransmitter action or COPD management because you don't need to know it to treat tinea or plantar fasciatis.

You don't need to know those things to be a dermatologist, either. But dermatologists go to regular medical school with all the other MDs. It just seems odd to me that podiatrists have their own type of school with their own licensing body.

Specializes in Pediatrics, High-Risk L&D, Antepartum, L.

Those who are concerned about full independence and autonomy...I'm guessing they aren't aware of what a typical "collaboration" looks like.

Specializes in OB-Gyn/Primary Care/Ambulatory Leadership.
Usually physicians have bachelor degrees. Some have masters and it's usually a MHA or MBA. Nurses have a higher level of academic education then most MD's

Wha?? I feel like I'm in an alternate reality here, some of the things I'm reading in this thread. Please explain to me how an RN has a higher level of academic education then [sic] most MDs. An RN can practice with an Associate's degree. An MD requires a doctorate.

Specializes in OB-Gyn/Primary Care/Ambulatory Leadership.
Those who are concerned about full independence and autonomy...I'm guessing they aren't aware of what a typical "collaboration" looks like.

No kidding. Even the MD that I work with regularly has an entire passel of MDs that she consults with on more complicated cases.

Specializes in Anesthesia, ICU, PCU.
What is tacky about it? If you want to stay in a bubble with people who only share your opinions, then fine... You guys/gals want independent practice right, but it seems like you don't think about consequences that might ensue. What if physicians let you be truly independent where you have your own practice, you carry your own malpractice insurance etc... with no supervision at all--I mean truly independent. Do you think APN would fare that well? I find it disturbing that you guys don't even realize what these nursing organizations are pushing down your throat. Do you even look at some of these NP programs out there and their curricula? Most of them are BOGUS with a bunch of nursing theory classes. Do you really think these online programs should be putting NP in the market? As RN who is about to start a PA program , I find disturbing that some of these NP programs even exist... Until NP programs become standardized, most physicians wont take you seriously. When I was looking to become a NP, I looked at some the programs in my state and said to myself... these people gotta be kidding me with these curricula! And I compared them to some of the PA program and concluded it is dangerous to let NP practice independently..

Go on to see your MD when you have the sniffles and get some Claritin or be misprescribed a Z-pack if you don't trust the NP's curricula. Are they selling those drugs in quarter dispensers at the bowling alley yet, or do you have to go to your PCP still? Do you demand to see the roster and transcript of every professional you interact with for a service? I don't believe the average American does. If the nursing profession is willing to take on full autonomy at the expense of additional malpractice and liability, and state governments are also willing to legally bestow that autonomy, then so be it. Also, I wouldn't look to SDN for a single unbiased opinion about nursing. That entire forum is so salty about our profession they could distribute hypertension to the world's population and still have some left over for a Big Mac.

Well, I just received quite an education: I followed a link on this thread to the SDN website and couldn't believe the vitriol, the petulance, the outright venom being directed at THIS website, and both APNs and RNs alike.

I have never gone to that website, and frankly don't care to again. I wasn't moved to post a response (why would I bother?) although I see there is certainly quite a trail from there leading SDN members to post here.

So disappointing to find such animosity in those who are supposed to be collaborating medical professionals with OUR profession.

While I wouldn't turn away from the MDs and DOs I respect now, they would certainly lose stature in my eyes if I discovered any of them to ever voice the contempt I read on SDN.

Specializes in OB-Gyn/Primary Care/Ambulatory Leadership.

Yes, well...they'll all get a rude awakening during their intern year and a nurse saves their ass.

Specializes in Oncology.
Yes, well...they'll all get a rude awakening during their intern year and a nurse saves their ass.

If we're so inclined. I'll stop jerk residents from causing harm to patients, but when it comes to them making a fool out of themselves with attendings, I'll just stand back and watch. Kind and respectful residents I'll give critical tips for winning over attendings to.

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