nurses hide from high-needs pt

Nurses General Nursing

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Today I had a bariatric-size patient on med-surg floor. CA pt comes in for BSO. Large vertical abd incision dehisces and resists healing. Her health is not improving after a month in hospital and a short stay in ICU. She is very high maintenance. She needs to be toileted every 20-30 minutes (diarrhea) but she's unable to get to commode or bedpan without help. It's a 2 person assist (200+ lbs unsteady weight) but she doesn't want us using the lift. She's in constant pain "all over". She's got IV, central line, 2 nephrostomy drains, ilieal conduit drain, O2, and woundvac lines that she keeps tripping over and being upset about. She wouldn't ambulate so she ended up with DVT. Contact precautions because she's now got an infection. Also has a skin yeast infection in her folds because she can't shower or keep clean enough. Bedsore risk due to immobility. Edema isn't improving. Having trouble regulating body temp and needs a fan or a blanket brought to her on and off all morning. In short, she just needs alot of nursing care.

Today, as a student nurse, she was my patient. For the first time in this facility, I felt like I could not find my primary nurse or my aide. For my entire shift, I saw my aide once and then I swear she hid from me because I could NOT find her anywhere. After talking to my classmates who had her over the past few weeks, turns out they commented the same thing: nurses HIDE from this one patient. At one point my primary refused to get me pt's pain meds because nurse was "too busy", and she sent me to go beg help getting the med out of the Pyxis from another section's nurse. What was my pt's nurse doing that was so important? She wandered off to watch a new product demo at the other end of the unit when a vendor wandered through.

So, to use this as a learning opportunity, I had some questions:

Is there a good way of addressing it so that this pt gets the level of attention she needs? Was it a hospital policy issue (# pts per nurse) or something else? Is this common in some hospitals to treat a high-needs pt the same way as everyone else, not allowing for the extra attention she needs?

Any tips on dealing with pt when you can't get a helper but she's a 2 person assist -- but she throws a fit about the lift sling. She's also having explosive diarrhea, so even if I used the lift to get a commode or bedpan under her, I have no way by myself to lift this large woman off the sling enough that she can access the commode. She refuses to stay on the commode more than 5 minutes because commode is not bariatric-sized and pt states "it's too uncomfortable", so we'll get her back in bed, and 10 minutes later she starts asking for the commode again.

Any words of wisdom for me? Right now I feel disturbed to see a patient who needed care so much being avoided as the 'problem' patient. Was the staff at fault? Or where they good people just overwhelmed by the situation, and it's management's fault for not staffing things better?

If you were her primary nurse, is there anything you could do to improve her overall situation? Could you call a case worker or your supervisor to share concerns?

Again so many LTC facilities venturing into areas that they are unprepared for...understaffed, lacking appropriate equipment.

Venturing into the skilled facilty arena with LTC mentality and in the long run that wil not work - an accident waiting to happen

Yeah it is all about money for these facilities- fill those beds - but in their '

greed' they put the patients and the staff and the facilitys' reputation on the line

my former LTC - considered adding bariatric patients to their repitoire

They were unable and unprepared to take care of the larger residents they already had

Once we were expecting a large person and upon arrival the bed is too small..aides outright refusing to boost large residents, no large commodes, wheelchair too small...

it was like they figured they or rather the nurses / staff would manage...

and there seems like there was some kind of negative reinforcement in 'getting away with it' and running a business on a just in time or almost on time mentality that leads to increased irresponsible decisions....

We had a woman with airborne infection...she was put in a room with another resident (another facility could not take her as they had no isolation room available)

She was sick, diarrhea and insisted on an assist to bathroom - did not want diapers had very high maintence demanding and verbally abusive

I and other nurses could not go in as needed and the aides would/could not go in there as needed - poorly educated re care of isolation cases - well duh the faciiity was offering inappropriate care - we frequently ran out of masks no dedicated equipment for vitals - acutally only one bp/pulse ox for 46 residents and that rarely worked as it cost $$$ to recalibrate -

Long story short she went out - almost died for lack of care from management, the staff on down to kitchen that repeatedly sent her food she could not eat.

So were her caregivers worn out from her attitude

yes and she was avoided yes

unable to handle the acuity level with the 25 to 45 other residents to handle

No one really helped anyone else - all overwealmed with own tasks

her mental condition was detoriating as her respiratory condition worsened

big clue, right

her family noticed the change...

Lessons learned - none

Keep on getting away with just getting by

The slippery slope of not caring and getting away with it...

They sure do spruce up come survey time

6 month prep for survey

Shoulda spent more time and money offering better care to the resident

In 2009 they got 5 stars

Lessons learned - this posting made me reflect on the care I gave this woman.

I may have been more perceptive of her needs and her conditions if I had been less overwealmed by the amount of work, less affected by her attitude and avoided her a little less.

she was sick she was scared she needed help

Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.

The only thing I really feel bad about is that the student nurse couldn't find anyone to help her. I'm sure that of all the patients they would like to have the one on one care a student gives, that lady would be the one. I just imagine her walking the deserted hallways like Gary Cooper in the western "High Noon" - not. a. soul. in. sight. :-)

My completely anecdotal experience- a much larger percentage nursing home residents and "frequent flyers" younger and morbidly obese. This is quite a bit different from what I recall of 25 years ago or so. It becomes a vicious cycle for the provider and the patient with all the comorbidities. But I'm not willing to sacrifice my health for my job. I've got an ailing mom and kids who need me, too.

sad but true story, i'm a new grad who already sprained my back turning over 1 patient during clinicals. she was 200+lbs, needy, had a lot of requests.

I had another nurse to help me turn her but just 1 bad turn it was over. 7 months of chronic pain!! totally not worth it.

1) Psych

2) why isnt the diarrhea being addressed?

3) who is feeding her, and what

4)psych

1) Psych

2) why isnt the diarrhea being addressed?

3) who is feeding her, and what

4)psych

I'm gonna bet she has c-diff and they won't stem the tide while the organism is in control.

I'm gonna bet she has c-diff and they won't stem the tide while the organism is in control.

i have heard/read, but not seen, of docs using metamucil or other fiber therapy, to slow the GI transit time to allow the ABT to work better......

Specializes in ICU/CCU.

4. I would leave a note to her doctor seeing if it might be possible to have her a higher level of care where the patient to staff ratio was less.

Can I just say--no no no no NOOOO! Critical care areas are not the places for patients like this. Every once in a while we will have a patient like this dumped in ICU for some bogus clinical reason when really the med/surg floors are just sick of dealing with them. This patient is a soul-sucking black hole of patient care, meaning that the more time you spend with her, the more she will demand of you. Put her in ICU or step down and she will find even more to complain about. The constant alarming from everyone's monitors will keep her awake, the q 1 hour vital signs will annoy her to death. Being awakened at 0400 for labs will make her even crankier than she already is. And, at least in my ICU, we barely have bedside commodes in most of our rooms because most of our patients never ambulate while they are with us. We have these little tiny commodes that pull out from under the sink, too small for even an average sized American to use comfortably, much less a morbidly obese woman with issues. We have NO aides to help us, and our other patient is more than likely to be very critically ill and needing constant care just to stay ALIVE. Just because we only have two patients does not mean that we aren't freaking busy as h*ll.

Better equipment would help, but what this woman needs is a stern talking to, preferably by her doctor. No patient wants to hear that they are even partially responsible for their sorry plight, but this lady needs to hear it. She needs to be told that she either uses the lift or she waits as long as it takes for more help. She can use a bedpan. If she truly needs a rectal tube, she should have one. If she is too hot or too cold, she can use her unbroken arms to pull the covers off and on.

Her nurses have not abandoned HER; they have abandoned YOU, the student, because they know that you will jump and fetch and carry and cater and CARE. You supply what this patient really needs, which is attention. YOU are the one getting the bum deal, moreso than the patient, but that is the lot of a nursing student. (Remember that when you are a licensed nurse and are assigned a student.)

I commend you for wanting to help and to learn from this situation, but the fact of the matter is that, despite what all the textbooks say, there really is not much you can do for a patient like this under the real life circumstances in which most nurses are forced to work.

Good luck with school. You sound like you will be a great nurse.

Thank you all for your feedback!!!

On one hand agree with those of you who said she is overusing the call bell and manipulating. I do agree that the nurse's other 3-4 patients are just as important as this one. Maybe there is something to it when some of you said "psych consult". But at this stage in my training I am not skilled enough yet to distinguish when someone needs one, nor do I have any power at all in her care planning.

I still feel like the nurses are hiding from her bordering on a safety risk. She was assigned to me again for day #2. 24 hours later the filthy central-line dressing that I wanted to change but could not do w/o my instructor on day #1 was still there. I briefed the primary of this before I had to leave on day#1, and said she'd take care of it. Night shift didn't. And the new primary of the next day shift didn't even look at her until after I got my instructor in and we got it done. It's clearly showing visible dried blood and looks grungy, and date shows it was on there awhile. Also,dressings for other sites were soiled and I'm the only one who notices. Ileostomy bag was wrong type and had bad seal, so it was leaking blood down her side & into her bedding. Peripheral IV site was painful and very visibly swollen & bruised, and this also didn't just happen in the 15 minutes since I came on the floor, so why didn't anyone notice? I know she complains alot and loves her call bell, but I don't get what's going on when nothing appears to be done for her since I left the day before, other than scheduled meds. No wonder she's acquiring infections since arrival and feeling worse, not better. :eek:

I'm taking your advice about getting more help to move her -- you are so right! Interestingly today the sling is no longer in her bed, and I discovered it tossed out of sight on a chair, so looks like nobody is using it. If I wanted to use the lift, I still need to get help just to get her on the sling. But when I find her & bedding covered in blood, we focus on that and the other soiled dressings and we never did get OOB. After thinking about this thread, I checked her weight: almost 300 lbs. One other student nurse and I am pulling all that dead weight and she's not able to help at all -- and I'm thinking about what you all said about avoiding back injuries. I was taught we should not be trying to lift more than 50 lbs per nurse... but what is the rule for pulling a pt up in bed if they are completely unable to help? She's also bariatric-size which means the pads are not really wide enough to stick out much on either side of her, making us really lean over the wide bed to grab something to pull onto. My nursing skills book gives guidelines for lifting weights of patients, but it does not address the special situations of bariatric-type patients. How many people should we have had?

I'm also getting frustrated and just lack of things we need. Take for example linens: the unit is completely out of clean blankets for hours. But I couldn't leave her bloody-dirty ones on her, she is cold without blankets, and with layers of sheets she states she is "cold". No incentive spirometer in her room, and it's another wild goose chase trying to find her a new one. She's on Contact Isolation which means no equipment in/out, yet she has no pulse-ox or thermometer of her own -- how do I give meds without taking VS first?! No bariatric sized commode for a woman who won't sit on the standard commode more than 5 minutes because it "hurts" too much to use one so small for her. This is a magnet facility with a top reputation in the state. How do you full-time nurses handle not going crazy, if this is what you have to deal with? You have my respect! :D

I just need to vent a little bit to someone: I can't win! I want do things properly, keep pt comfortable, and keep my instructor satisfied that I get all my tasks done. Thanks for your help & advice. If nothing else it's keeping me sane, having someone to talk to. :nurse:

Specializes in PACU, CARDIAC ICU, TRAUMA, SICU, LTC.

Is this patient in a bariatric bed? No bariatric commode; not good. Sounds like this hospital is not complying with the Americans with Disabilities Act. You need the necessary equipment to do your job, and the patient is entitled to a commode that meets her size. Does the hospital have Hoyer pads that can be left under her? These are pads that are made of soft, but durable material, and have pull handles (made of soft but tough rope) that are used to reposition the patient. Can your instructor speak with the unit's Social Worker? Risk Management should be made aware of the issues in terms of safety as it relates to staff, i.e., lifting. Oh, my aching back! :crying2:

I don't fault that nurse(s) one bit.

Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.

Kudos to you, or to be more old school, a big ole atta girl!!:) CeilingCat. This type of patient is so frustrating, because you can see with your own eyes the consequences of poor choices by the patient on the one hand, and frustration and less than optimum nursing care on the other, and as students and nurses we just want to do something already!

I'm a bit curious about the lady's personality. Is she just checked out emotionally, and childlike in her demands for attention and gratification, is her affect flat, or is she actually pleasant and conversant and appreciative of your efforts to get her the proper care for her dressings and clean linens, etc. I ask this because I really do have an interest in what "makes people tick" if you will-- and I know that our patient populations are seeing far more obese people than ever before, impacting our entire healthcare system and it's cost.

In my job now I scootch a lady up a few inches who weighs less than 100 lbs, and I can really feel it in my back, even though I use the best body mechanics I know of. Two people pulling up a 300 lb lady - pretty risky.

It would take at least 4 to move her. And WHY can the patient not help?

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