2 nurses arrested in CA.....

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2 nurses where arrested for giving a 80 year old man medication that was not prescribed by the doctor. The nurses worked on night shift and thought they would give him medication just to make him more comfortable because he was complaining of pain. So they thought instead of Disturbing the doctor they would just give him medication on their own.

Geez, why are nurses so scared of calling docs?

Originally posted by Wheaties

i dont know anything about doctor's orders and pain meds.

the way i was taught was that if the client was in pain, the nurse should give pain meds if the client wanted some, no questions ask.

does pain medication require a doctor's order? If the doctor didnt order any pain meds, and there are no pain meds on the client's medication record, does that mean the nurse can't give any pain reliever to ease the client's pain, unless it says so in the medication record?

Ummmm, Yeah, that's the way it is . No order, no med! and , Yes, call the doc for an order no mater what time it is.

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I think the real issue here is - do we want to see our fellow nurses criminally prosecuted for errors in judgement?

Most of you are focusing on whether or not they should have called the doctor. It isn't even clearly stated in the article that they were afraid to call the doctor. Maybe management has given the nurses in this facility a great deal of autonomy and this is a common practice. Being that these are fairly new nurses, they might have thought that it was o.k., since they see other more seasoned nurses doing it. Maybe there were poorly written and misunderstood protocols in place. The facility sure was quick to transfer blame. All the more reason to get your own .

Doctors make errors all the time, resulting in death, and aren't being charged with murder at the same rate as nurses seem to be. All of you should be outraged by this! I would be very afraid that this might happen to you. Of course, all of us think that we are perfect super nurses and would never make an error like this. This could never happen to us.

No wonder we have a nursing shortage. Who wants to be in a profession where you might get thrown in prison for making a mistake.

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I too believe that one of the reasons nurses are prosecuted so easily is the 'perfect nurse' myth...and the sad fact that nurses propogate this and turn on each other so easily.We have become the scapegoats of the system it seems. Docs are reluctant to say anything negative about other docs in most cases. Nurses should learn from this.

I don't want to be accused of practicing medicine without a license so I resist giving a med without a direct order...and more and more I am suspicious of protocols and standing orders unless I've spoken to the doc myself and verified he DOES want to go by HIS OWN protocol. Sad we have to practice this way.:o

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I was having a conversation with an attorney regarding a medical malpractice case. He had hired a doctor as an expert witness to explain the standard of care for nursing in this particular case. I thought this seemed silly and asked him why he didn't hire a nurse to be the expert witness. Nurses can certainly explain the nursing standard of care better than a doctor. He said he could not risk that because in his many years of experience in medmal - "NURSES HAVE A TENDENCY TO TURN ON EACH OTHER."

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I think the real issue here is - do we want to see our fellow nurses criminally prosecuted for errors in judgement?

Most of you are focusing on whether or not they should have called the doctor. It isn't even clearly stated in the article that they were afraid to call the doctor. Maybe management has given the nurses in this facility a great deal of autonomy and this is a common practice. Being that these are fairly new nurses, they might have thought that it was o.k., since they see other more seasoned nurses doing it. Maybe there were poorly written and misunderstood protocols in place. The facility sure was quick to transfer blame. All the more reason to get your own malpractice insurance.

Doctors make errors all the time, resulting in death, and aren't being charged with murder at the same rate as nurses seem to be. All of you should be outraged by this! I would be very afraid that this might happen to you. Of course, all of us think that we are perfect super nurses and would never make an error like this. This could never happen to us.

No wonder we have a nursing shortage. Who wants to be in a profession where you might get thrown in prison for making a mistake.

Whoa nelly!

I most certianly DO want bad nurses who make mistakes that cause people their LIVES out of the healthcare profession. I don't know about Prison? but know that I don't want EITHER of those 2 who made not just a "mistake" but a poor judgement call on such a simple thing. I went thru just shy of one year of ADN school (am reapplying to either LVN or ADN again).....and even "I" know you NEVER EVER EVER give a med w/o an order PERIOD...and most certainly NOT a narcotic, sedative etc....

I know some dr's are abusive and have a God Complex...too dang bad. It's great they documented and followed up and STOOD BY what they had done....BUT why was the on call doc not answering the pages? I think he is just as responsibile for this as they are. when your on call...your ON CALL..period that means ANSWERING your pages!!

I know I don't want any of thos people near my family if they are making such poor judgment calls. uh uh....

I'm sorry it happened..but I think those nurses should have played the "what if" game prior to such a drastic action. Trust me if' I'm running scenerio's thru my mind (the what if ____ happens after I do this) and loss of my license or being arrested pops up.....nope..not happening.

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Specializes in ICU.

I understand mabey giving something like Tylenol for a temp in the middle of the night without an order, but certainly not a narcotic sedative.

Call the Doc, it's his job even in the middle of the night. It's why he gets paid the big bucks!

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ejm99 - You missed my point. The nursing boards are responsible for protecting the public from what you call "bad nurses," who make mistakes or use poor judgement. Nurses are disciplined and often lose their licenses. The patient's family can use the civil court system to further punish the "bad nurses." The criminal courts are not the appropriate place for these nurses to be. They did not intentionally kill this patient. You are talking about throwing these nurses in prison. Is this what you want?

Many poorly run facilities create working climates that set nurses up for trouble. You may not ever make this type of mistake, but don't be so certain that you might not make some other error at some point in your career. It happens to the best of nurses, who never thought it could happen to them.

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Quote from another post on this website:

"It's frustrating and extremely stressful on my unit of 42 beds (ortho/neuro/trauma) when typical assignments consist of 8 patients on a day shift for an RN working with an LPN (the RN is responsible for all assessments, charting, IV meds, discharges and admissons, among other things). At night all RNs get 8 patients with no CNA or LPN. Not only do the patients suffer, but there have been several days when I leave work thinking "thank God I didn't kill anyone today!"

I am sure that many nurses feel this same way!

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Specializes in LTC, CPR instructor, First aid instructor..

they'll never ever get a chance to make that mistake again. Too bad they put the cart before the horse. It cost them not only their licenses, but also their careers, and a possible prison sentence. Maybe after the mess is all over, they'll be able to apply to WalMart as greeters. What a wakeup call for all nurses who hear about this is! :uhoh21:

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I was having a conversation with an attorney regarding a medical malpractice case. He had hired a doctor as an expert witness to explain the standard of care for nursing in this particular case. I thought this seemed silly and asked him why he didn't hire a nurse to be the expert witness. Nurses can certainly explain the nursing standard of care better than a doctor. He said he could not risk that because in his many years of experience in medmal - "NURSES HAVE A TENDENCY TO TURN ON EACH OTHER."

OMG...a kindred spirit after my heart...for 25+ years I have been saying what my signature says; nursing IS the only profession in health care that will screw their own in a nanosecond...aand more often than not, it' just for sh**ts and grins!!! :rolleyes:

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