"Nurses Are So Mean"

[eriksoln, BSN, RN]

I've been looking into options to leave nursing. I have many reasons, could create a whole thread with them. I'd be lying if I said the toxic work environment presented to me at hospitals isn't one of them.

There is something unique and bitter about the way I've seen many nurses go about treating other nurses. This alone would not bother/concern me in the bit except for the fact that then you throw in the way administration/doctors (is there not more than a few threads about physicians yelling at nurses)/family and everyone else treats us on top of how we treat each other and...............well, you end up in a work environment that no paycheck justifies.

What I mean when I say the interaction between nurses tends to be unique and especially bitter is:

I was a landscaper before I was a nurse. Before that, I worked in the resteraunt business. The landscaping work environment is known for being very sink or swim. It is flooded with individuals who are chronicly unemployable. In my years as a crew supervisor, as many as just below half my work crew was, at the time, less than a few months removed from being released from prison for drug distribution/domestic violence etc. The rest of my crew was for the most part young part time workers with work ethic that mirrored their age and, then there were a few laid off middle aged people who worked well but would only be there short term. To sum it all up, I did not work with people who considered being "professional" a priority nor did they care in the least if their interactions with others was positive or not......with a few exceptions sprinkled in. Now, I must say, I prefer their company to the company of a great many of the nurses I've worked with.

As a crew suprevisor, yes.....there was a high risk for physical violence. On the other hand, these people would vent their frustrations, complain........then go back to their business. That is where these teen-agers and recently free convicts were more mature than the avg. nurse tends to be. They got their feelings out in the open, said what they needed to say and moved on. In the nursing field, someone telling you what is bothering them is often preceeded by months of verbal digs, unecessary write ups and nasty notes left in mailboxes. Then, after three months of being pricked and pinched to death, with no explination of why (which leaves you with no alternative but to think these people just have a baseline of nastiness to them), the reason why they were upset with you in the first place finally comes out......usually in the middle of a conversation not relating to it in the least bit. Most of the time, whatever it was.......did not warrent the prolonged passiveness. Most nurse vs. nurse squables I've witnessed involve syringes being left on a med cart or something else as ticky tacky.

People who think the medical field has a monopoly on gossip and backstabbing are, IMHO, wrong. Before being a landscaper, I worked in resteraunts. They TRULY could have you believing all sorts of strange things about everyone if you bothered to tune in to the grape vine. But again, I prefered their company.

In the resteraunt business, people who...........didn't work hard, were nasty to other employees on a regular basis or were just asking for it (acted obnoxiously, left early with work to be done still) were the ones who got talked about. If you prefered not to play the "gossip goes around" game, you could simply mind your own business, do your work and not be a part of it. No so in nursing. In nursing, the gossip/backstabbing is so random it would take a mathemetician to create a formula that could explain why one person got gossiped about more than any other. This randomness leaves things open for interpretation. Some people will walk away thinking "they only talk about me because I am cute". Others will walk away thinking "I need to work harder at something". Problem is.................the few who do walk away thinking they need to change have no idea what to change, because the backstabbing and gossip is completely random most of the time. Its not like they can say "Oh, only people who are late all the time get talked about, maybe thats my problem". We are too bussy hissing at the color of scrubs they picked or giving them verbal pinches over how much McDonald's they eat to shed any light on the true issue.

My experience in nursing has shown me to be tribal with my coworkers. I know who I can trust, who will answer my questions honestly, who I can say "I'm having a bad day" to and explain why...........and I stick to them. The rest are none of my concern. If they need my help they will ask for it, and I will give it, but I don't open up my social doors to every co-worker anymore. A lot of problems with the nursing field went away for me when I adapted this way of dealing with co-workers.

I don't have a strong opionion for one side or the other in this thread. But I do have a strong opinion about whether or not the nursing work environment is toxic or not. Sometimes it is the new people who insist they are owed something and believe they are picked on because they have more clevege than the other nurse. Sometimes it is the experienced nurse "eating their young" who create it. As far as that whole issue goes, I don't think its being experienced or new that decides if you are part of the problem or not. Lets face it, for an environment to be as toxic as it is in nursing, both sides have to be contributing heavily to the problem. No way just one side or the other causes all this.

[Denise8899]

Sometimes, you just have to reach down and grab your boot straps and pull yourself up!

I'm quite the introvert, and I don't often end up in the middle of a tight knit group of buddies at any job. I'm okay with that. I get to avoid the gossip and crap, and concentrate on my job and the people who need me to be focused on them. I treat people the way I want to be treated, help when I can, and ask for help when I need it. I strive to do the right things. For the ones who do not, it's interesting to see how that comes back to them, even if it only means they are unhappy and can't figure out why.

Thanks for writing what so many of us wanted to say...

[Creamsoda, ASN, RN]

I do agree with the OP's post for sure, but on the other hand, I also think that there are alot of nurses who are just ******. Ive been a nurse for 5 years, I myself get along with everyone, but there just seems to be a lot of nurses who are just ******. I think it has to to with so much estrogen in the work place and not necessarily the fact that we are nurses. I prefer working with men. There is not the drama with them that you see with women.

[TheSquire, DNP, EMT-B, APN, NP]

While I am a lowly student, I've been told by some of the experienced RNs I'm taking grad classes with that men on staff function like graphite rods in a fission reactor, in that both go a long way towards preventing meltdowns.

6mos 'til I get to see if it works in practice...

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

what we seem to have here is a problem with too many women working in close proximity. it's not an age thing because i am a young but i definitely don't have an attitude of entitlement. i have been involved in many different groups with different male-female ratios. fraternity (all men), jobs (half male/half female), and nursing school (all female except myself). in my experience women seem to be much more sensitive, especially young nurses who do not have a high confidence level. the people in my nursing school classes like to complain that someone is mean to them but when they explain what happened it is something trivial. what really happens is that the "mean" person in question did not go out of their way to be nice. girls like to gossip about tv shows, patients, and other people as soon as they leave. guys are generally focused on what sports game was on or what stupid thing their friends did last weekend.

not trying to generalize but females are usually considered the more emotional and sensitive sex so when they are massed together conflict is sure to occur.

while i'm not convinced it has anything to do with estrogen vs. testosterone, you got it. at least part of it. people will complain about someone being mean to them or "eating them alive," when it's really that someone didn't go out of their way to be nice or to help them out.

[CranberryMuffin]

What we seem to have here is a problem with too many women working in close proximity. It's not an age thing because I am a young but I definitely don't have an attitude of entitlement. I have been involved in many different groups with different male-female ratios. Fraternity (all men), jobs (half male/half female), and nursing school (all female except myself). In my experience women seem to be much more sensitive, especially young nurses who do not have a high confidence level. The people in my nursing school classes like to complain that someone is mean to them but when they explain what happened it is something trivial. What really happens is that the "mean" person in question did not go out of their way to be nice. Girls like to gossip about TV shows, patients, and other people as soon as they leave. Guys are generally focused on what sports game was on or what stupid thing their friends did last weekend.

Not trying to generalize but females are usually considered the more emotional and sensitive sex so when they are massed together conflict is sure to occur.

Wow. Part of me wants to let you sink yourself in the workplace. By 'trying not to generalize' you are doing a pretty good job of it.

Words fail me to provide an appropriate response. I agree that we all need to develop thicker skin, but seriously, if you don't check your own attitude and stereotypes about women at the door when you go to work, you are going to have some trouble getting anyone to take you seriously.

[muesli]

You make a lot of valid points. However, I can think of one educator of new grads in particular who, after talking to every fellow new grad I knew who she precepted, it was complained about that she was demeaning and rude to them. Just like any workplace, there are nasty people and there are people who keep to themselves. But I would agree that if it's starting to seem like no one is getting along with you, perhaps you better re-examine yourself.

I think in most workplaces there is gossip and backbiting. I've witnessed it in my nursing career as well as my retail career. I see people insulting someone behind their backs then smiling to their faces. No one's perfect but certain people do it more often than others. I try not to get involved. I try to be positive, and I gravitate towards people who do the same.

One of the things that I'm starting to see (that I'm guilty of too), is nurses complain about the rudeness/condescending attitudes, or lack of knowledge of interns/doctors, then go around and talk about them behind their backs - instead of confronting the problem, they seethe in their anger and are even ruder to them behind their backs than the MDs were in person.

Maybe what the nursing profession needs is more training on polite, direct confrontational approaches to interpersonal problem solving, versus the same old passive aggressive nonsense.

[cb_rn]

I totally agree that there are plenty of people that have a victim mentality that will jump on any negative interaction as abuse. Esp the changing jobs frequently, that's a dead giveaway.

I know Ive certainly recieved some catty/snotty comments and I've given a few as well. That's part of being working in a stressful environment. No harm, no foul, get over it and get on with life, right?

On the other hand we all know there are some bullies out there. Sometimes a mob will join the bullies but more often than not, everyone just turns a blind eye and says nothing. I have been guilty of this.

I submit that a preceptor that is having a particularly bad time in life should probably not be precepting until things lighten up in their home life - for their own benefit (because precepting is stressful and can be frustrating so why add any fuel to a fire?) and for the benefit of their trainee.

[JoeMacERRN]

Fellow nurse's, M or F, old or young, pretty or not, please lets work together. Don't give up on this profession. Not only is it a decent wage earning job, but it's the most righteous job you could be involved with. We are on this earth to help one another. By being a nurse, it implies that you/we care obout other humans.

We will always struggle to pay bills, struggle with interactions with other humans who are going thru stressful situations. Whether it's that rude trauma resident who hasn't slept in 36hrs, or a new mother who presents at 03:00 with a sick kid...we are health care professionals that CAN make a difference in someone's life. What other profession has multiple oppurtunites, as we do, to do good? Don't let those oppurtunitues to impact a pt., family memeber, co-workers, go by. I feel so blessed that I'm an RN. I couldn't be happier with my choice of professions!!

[terrirn58]

Indeed , Ruby -just why are you so defensive ? The very tone of your article makes me wonder if you don't see your own role in this . What if you are inflicting "lateral violence" on your co-workers and you don't recognize it - are you willing to examine your own behavior and change it ?

I have been a nurse for 15 yrs and I have at times been appalled at how poorly nurses treat each other . Interestingly , the very nurses who are the meanest are also the ones who appear the nicest when interacting with patients - is it that you only have so much kindness in you ? And why is it that if you're having a bad day you can be as mean as nasty as you want to be but a co-worker (especially one not in your inner circle ) is not afforded the same consideration if they are having a bad day ?

I totally agree that the unit manager sets the tone for the unit - and it is far easier to take care of the "target" than it is to change the "groupthink" . I honestly believe that there are nurses that thrive in toxic environments where they work to create drama and controversy . Why I will never understand .

So, Ruby , what if we agree to quit using excuses for treating our co-workers badly, stop acting like kids in junior high cliques and behave like adults . How about treating each other the way we wish to be treated ? What if we recognize that everyday we come to work we must handle a stressful work load and we have an obligation to each other not to heap on more stress by creating toxic work environments ?

In short ,if you are not treating your co-workers with the respect and dignity you wish to be treated with than you need to change your behavior . Period . No more excuses.

[maxthecat]

I won't address the mobbing/bullying problem, because obviously that kind of behavior has no place in any workplace and should have been stamped out long ago. I do want to say something in regard to "mean" behaviors, specifically why the same behavior may be perceived differently by those who have been in nursing for a while vs those who are just coming into practice.

When I started in nursing around 20 years ago I was fairly sensitive, got my feelings hurt easily, etc. The folks who were orienting me made it very clear that I needed to toughen up if I were to continue in the field. They said something like, "Look, Max, this is a stressful field. It is filled with some very bright and experienced individuals who do not necessarily have a lot of patience and who may not always worry about your feelings. They are not going to change. This is the way the hospital works. It is on YOU to adapt to them. They are not going to adapt to you. You will be snapped at by nurses, doctors, housekeepers, phlebotomists, etc. You are going to have to learn to give as good as you get or just let it roll off and get on with the job--otherwise you are never going to make it."

I did toughen up because I had to as a survival strategy. As far as I know I have never been accused of being mean or rude to co-workers. However, I also probably just take in stride rude remarks or impatient snappings from other people, figuring "this is the way the hospital works." Because that's how I was socialized into the system. Today's students and new nurses have been taught that any expression of impatience, irritation, is unacceptable, and hospital management increasingly agrees and is putting "no tolerance" policies into effect, and that is how it should be. The environment I had to adapt to was not always a healthy one.

What I would say to myself and nurses of my generation is: We need to start giving more thought to how we come across to others. What has been "just the way hospitals are" for years no longer is acceptable. Yes, some may be over-sensitive, but then again, they may not be.

What I would say to students and new nurses is: Realize that behaviors that are clearly hostile to you may not even register with us veterans, because we were taught that they were OK and just part of the hospital culture. Please don't assume we're just mean old buzzards. Talk to us, don't attack us.

Both groups: None of us is going to do this perfectly. Let's cut each other some slack while we work on the problem.

[RN1980]

nursing is a tough, nasty and often thankless job. for many of people this is not condusive to making a person happy and cheerfull. i have often felt myself starting to snap at people for silly little issues that really dont matter much at all. god forbid i turn inot a nurse ratchett.