4 : 1 nurse patient ratio for med surg???

Nurses General Nursing

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Hi,

Most RN's at my my nursing clinicals tell me their nurse patient ratio for med surg is 4 : 1 and sometimes 5 : 1 (in Canada)

When you nurses in the USA talk about high pt ratios like 7 or 10 to one nurse, are you talking about having that many patients strictly as an RN by yourself or do you all have LPN's and CNA's that help you? If its that many patients without having any LPN's etc, that must be very hard to manage all those people and provide safe nursing care!

In all the hospitals that I've been at, the ratio is 4 or 5 to 1 RN without any assistance. Is that a good ratio?

Out here in Alberta on days 3:1, Evenings 4:1 and nights 7:1 (if fully staffed).

RNs and PNs carry their own patient load and do their own care. As an LPN it's not my job to do an RNs care, vitals, etc. That is their job. Each level of nurse is responsible for knowing her scope of practice. The PN reports to the Charge Nurse. It's not unusual for floats not to know who is RN and who is PN because our jobs have become so similar. On many units it comes down to care of PICCs and Central Lines, meds administration via those lines and the insertion/removal of NGs (RN responsibility but soon to be forwarded on to PNs as well)

On acute care units usually their is a Nursing Assistant on days and evenings they don't carry an assignment but they assist the nurse resposible for any person requiring total or two person care. They also assist with showers, empty foley's and ostomies.

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Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.

At my hospital, RNs can have as many as 10 patients on their med-surg floors at night. If one is 'double assigned' with an LPN, it can go as high as 12-15. The LPN will administer the medications, but the RN would be ultimately responsible for the notes, other task oriented assignments and admissions/discharges. Because of this, most RNs really don't like to be double assigned with the PN, because it is really more of a workload for them and the only thing they are not doing is giving the meds. Our med-surg floors hold about 30 patients, may have three aides on days and evenings, maybe 2 on nights.

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Specializes in med surg, LTC, ER , OB, PSYCH.

I loved med surg nsg but left it and until things change{yeah right}I'll never go back to it.:madface:I started out doing team, nsg 1 LPN, 1 CNA and myself with up to 12 -14 pts and that worked really well BUT as usual mgmt stepped in to change things and things rapidly went downhill.:bluecry1: Oh, we heard that it was necessary as a cost effective way to care for pts and it was supposed to be easier on all nsg{each nurse, both RN and LPN were going to devide pts so we would only have 4 -5 pts each to do everything for along with our CNA} but we often started out with 8 -9 pts and got who knows how many admissions! Also, many of the LPNS I worked with were not comfortable with doing neurochecks etc and the facility rules were that LPNS could not hang blood, do IV pushes etc so....quess who stepped in" Not that I minded but it was an added stess on top of taking care of my pts.:bugeyes:

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Specializes in ICU, CCU,Wound Care,LTC, Hospice, MDS.

Where I worked (past tense) it was 6:1 with one aide for 2 nurses. I've heard they've gone up to 7:1 since I left. It wasn't safe!:(

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Specializes in Hospital Education Coordinator.

our ratio is 5:1 and there is a CNA to assist. The ratio is the same whether the nurse is an RN or an LVN.

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Specializes in Pediatrics (Burn ICU, CVICU).

I'm in ICU, but the nurses on our floors have typically have a 3-4:1, however we are a pediatric hospital.

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One of the hospitals in my town, a 1:9 ratio is with no LPNs.

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My ratio was usually 7:1

Our CNA on our floor was 11:1 or 10:1 (if she is lucky she will get the shorter hall!)

NO MED NURSE

Hopefully our secretary was there!

I didn't "hate" my job but I had way too many patients and it wasn't safe. I learned a lot and wouldn't change my experience for the world!

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Specializes in Almost everywhere.

I usually have anywhere from 4-5 pts, there are several days when I may have anywhere from 4-9 charts pass through my hands with all of the admits and dismissals we have. We no longer have LPNs :cry:, we do have CNAs and they may have anywhere from 8-12 pts, just depends on the staffing etc. Our floor does not take into account pt acuity :down: so it is typical to have cardiac drips, surgicals, heart caths, and some just really sick people in the mix and still be expected to juggle it all...and oh yeah...don't get overtime....:nono: :uhoh3:!!!!

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Specializes in med surg.

WOW!! on a regular night it was 4 Rn's on my unit with7- 8 pt's. each and at times 9 on really short nights one or two of us had 10 the other 2 had 9... (depending on the census.)..generally 2 nursing assistants on the floor..On really short nights we have worked 4 RN's 34 patients on the floor 1 cna...on lucky low census nights we had 6 each but that was pretty rare and ER would fill us right up!!

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Specializes in Staff Dev--Critical Care & Trauma.

It really varies hospital to hospital. At mine it's 4:1 on days, 5:1 on evenings, and 6:1 on nights. They generally have one CNA per 2 RNs and they work in a triad. Ratios change with acuity.

ICU is generally 2:1 but can be 1:1 or 1:2 depending on acuity.

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