Nurse Impersonators

[NancyRN]

Am I the only one who resents the "nurse impersonators" who abound in the health care field?

Everyone who works at a doctor's office or in a hospital wears scrubs and seems to pass themselves off as a nurse. Of course, the hospital doesn't mind. Visitors and patients don't realize how few nurses are actually on the unit if the unit clerks, nursing assistants, housekeepers, and technicians are all wearing scrubs.

It seems harmless enough, this generic flowered jacketed scrub outfit, until you think of the harm it does to nurses' reputation as a whole. I just wonder what people think when they see two or three "nurses" ambling around the hallways or sitting at the nurses station while their family member waits for pain medication!

I have to think the doctor's offices are the worst. The doctors will actually refer to the medical assistant as "the nurse". I wonder if a doctor would appreciate an employee passing himself off as a doctor?

Last month I was in a doctor's waiting room with my son when a man came in holding his hand wrapped in a towel. He announced that he'd cut his hand and needed to see the doctor ( ok- dont ask me why he didn't go to the ER!) . The "nurse" told him to have a seat. The waiting room was crowded and it was obvious he was in for a very long wait. I saw the towel becoming saturated, and I couldn't help going over to him and telling him to hold his hand above heart level, apply pressure, try some deep breathing, etc. I told the "nurse" to let him go in and be seen, but she said, "He has to wait his turn, it wouldnt be fair to the patients who had appointments."

Driving home, my son asked, "Why didn't that nurse help that man?" I told him, "Because she's not a nurse!" But I wonder how many people in that waiting room went home with the story of the nurse who wouldnt help a bleeding man.

I know nurses don't want to go back to the days of wearing caps (even though I love my cap), but shouldn't we be more concerned about people in scrubs making us look bad? Shouldn't a nurse on duty be as easily recognizable as an EMT, a Firefighters, or a Police Officer?

[Huganurse]

Can anyone tell me why an MA would make $19.00/hr.? This is more than alot of nurses make. If the Docs don't want to pay for the nurse, then why are they paying the MA's more than they pay a nurse???? Most RN's that work in Drs offices make about $15-16.00/hr. in my area. Where's the justice??? The more I read this thread, the more frustrated I get. By the way, they are paying CNA's in my area more than what some of the RN's make. Again, where is the justice??? Maybe since they are getting paid almost as much and in many cases more than the nurse, they think they are a nurse or on the same level as a nurse?

[thisnurse]

i was thinking the same thing about that pay rate.

its more than i make right now excluding my benefits.

just a hunch but i think there might be something wrong with our health care system, maybe we should investigate...lol

[RNKitty]

Being a Nurse who uses independant judgement is very different actually and legally from being trained to do nursing skills. There are reasons why CNA's and MA's are not allowed to do invasive procedures, and LPN's are usually not allowed to push IV drugs. You have to have the training to ask yourself:

Why does this need to be done?

What are the risks and benefits to the patient?

What outcome am I assessing for?

What measures do I take in case of an adverse reaction?

Is this the appropriate intervention for the patient?

Nurses do not just blindly follow doctor's orders. If it is an order that may have bad outcomes for the patient, we need to question it. We have been given delegation responsibility because we have the educational background and licensure that says we have been trained and passed the test.

For another example, a PA is not a Doctor. They share similar responsibilty and tasks, but ultimately, the PA must be OVERSEEN by the Doctor. Why? The doctor has had more education.

To all the aides: We love the work you do, and value it for the hard work it is.

[Q.]

Ok people...LOOK. I am so sick and tired of this debate.

This topic is NOT about who is more professional, who works harder, who is more respected, blah blah. CNAs - you are very worthwhile and provide excellent care - but the issue at hand is about NURSE impersonators - not about CNAs value to the patients. PLEASE stop cluttering the issue with these comments. It's tiring. For a licensed health care professional, this issue of impersonation is at the heart of the nursing shortage and all that is wrong with the profession. Please let us argue this and discuss this without having to constantly defend ourselves against CNAs who think this topic is about them - because it ain't.

Also, I realize the scope of some CNAs and MAs work can be expanded and include a variety of skills, but let me emphasize that your training is task-oriented and not that of a licensed nurse. There is a difference and until you complete BOTH tracks of education, you have no basis in which to comment or compare. Nursing is so much more than simple tasking! So I beg to differ that the "only" difference between a CMA and a LPN is doing caths! Please! And may I ask - how do you know this? Did you go to LPN school as well?

There is an important theory in nursing and that is: "KNOW WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW."

Again, this debate is about people who are not LICENSED NURSES leading the public to believe that they are. This is NOT about CNAs or MAs and what they can or can't do.

[pandora]

You're right Susy K. The issue is how do people feel about nurse impersonators. I hope that anyone who knowingly allows patients to think they are nurses (when they are not) will think again after reading these postings. If you really want to become a nurse, go to college and become one. It is wrong to lead people to believe you have skills you don't have. You will come unstuck if push comes to shove and a real emergency occurs.

[dawngloves, BSN, RN]

This post has made me think of the Baptist churches in my area that hires "nurses" to help worshipers that are overcome with heat, emotion. They are just lay folk in white, hat and all, that carry smelling salts! Also available for funerals and revival meetings.:roll

[JMP]

In Ontario, Canada the title "nurse" is a protected title. ONLY RN's and RPN's can use this title.

I work in an ICU setting and like the rest of the hospital, RN's can wear anything, ward clerks wear a certain colour, personal care assistants wear a certain colour and housekeeping wear a certain colour. Our hospital is VERY strict about wearing name tags- with photos that clearly state who you are and WHAT you are.

We do not use RPN's (LVN- LPN's) at our hospital, so all nurses are RN's and it is very clear WHO IS WHO.

Patients like it. RN's love it.

[pandora]

Seems to me you've got a working solution in Ontario. So simple really. Maybe we should be doing the same thing over here in England.

[Q.]

Originally posted by Huganurse

Can anyone tell me why an MA would make $19.00/hr.? This is more than alot of nurses make. If the Docs don't want to pay for the nurse, then why are they paying the MA's more than they pay a nurse???? Most RN's that work in Drs offices make about $15-16.00/hr. in my area. Where's the justice??? The more I read this thread, the more frustrated I get. By the way, they are paying CNA's in my area more than what some of the RN's make. Again, where is the justice??? Maybe since they are getting paid almost as much and in many cases more than the nurse, they think they are a nurse or on the same level as a nurse?

I agree. In MY clinic and in MY area, the LPNs make $11.00/hour and the RNs make $16.00/hour.

Why is an MA being paid more? That goes against logic.

[thisnurse]

i have a feeling that she should hold on to that job. dont think another one that pays like that is gonna come along any time soon.

[stevie b]

Thank You to NurseKaren for the links to those articles.I am currently an LPN,however I am not satisfied with the limitations, so I am in school for my RN.I worked very hard for my LPN, and am working even harder now. The difference between the depth of information offered in each program is mind boggling,but in the end I feel I will be able to make a much more accurate assessment of my Pts.I know you all remember how hard it was, and how dedicated you had to be to be successful. So, it really does chap my big ol' behind when those who are not nurses dont correct the mistake when they are assumed to be nurses.

[RNIAM, BSN, RN]

This type of thread just p#sses me off...sorry but now I feel better. Noone should intentionally impersonate another. It just should not happen. A few points to make. All people and all work is important, no matter what you do. How do you know that the housekeeper standing next to you doesn't have a BSN in ABC's? She/he may just be getting away from it all. My point is this,never judge a book by its cover. Yes you may have 2-4-8 years of education in nursing and that would of course make you more knowlegable in nursing, but certainly not more knowlegable in everything.I noted alot of insecurity as I was reading thses posts. How sad to be that afraid for your jobs? I wonder if those DR's all sit around and back stab those terrible PA's. Here is a good one. I wonder how many housekeeper get p'od at those lousy nurses who pick up after themselves? Do they run around screaming "that nurse is out for my job," or better yet "that nurse is impersonating a house keeper?"

I think all RN's should go back to an all white dress system of identification, if it makes you feel better.

I am a busy PCT going into nursing school next fall. I never pretend to be nurse, nor would I. I have however been called a nurse by many people. I have tried to explain,when I could that I was not a nurse but let me tell you all something. When your in a situation where the pateint is lying on the floor, is bleeding, or another emergency situation is at hand,the last thing I am thinking about is "Hi my name is Rhona and I will be your PCT tonight." Aways remember you get what you ask for. If you want it clear that you do so much more, then please do not ask me to take a foley out, put a dressing on, monitor a breathing rate for that matter . All techs with little or no trainning definitly should not be taking vital signs,This is a major DX proceedure that all or most nurses are leaving in the hands of untrained people? Am I right?PCT's in a hospital setting should be their for direct patient care,ie turn/position, feed, dress, bath& toilet. That is it. If you want the distinction be prepared to do the work. I imagine alot here would like thier cake and eat it too. Sorry to go off like this but I get so tired of this I am better than you are thing. It makes me ill. sorry for this being a PCT post but I just had to do it.