Nurse: 'I was fired for refusing flu shot'

Nurses COVID

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I'd go one step further- Smokers are at a MUCH higher risk of contracting resp illnesses- so can a hospital DEMAND that all of their employees are non-smokers? Several ppl on here have mentioned Hep b and TB testing- the BIG difference here is that those have been around for decades, and the flu (esp. swine) vaccines are brand new, untested.

Granted that the jury is out on flu vaccines - but, if you were a hospital decision maker, what would you do? You have an obligation to your patients and an obligation to your employees. The science may be imperfect right now but does that give you the right to ignore it entirely?

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Specializes in Vents, Telemetry, Home Care, Home infusion.

influenza vaccine is not new...been around since 1950's.

smallpox and polio vaccines started in 1960's with mass immunization clinics held around country (thanks mom and dad).

as child, grieved when my friends brother died from measles. neighbor decided not to get son immunized for whooping cough---guess who almost died a year after this decision when not diagnosed by peds--concerned rn friend recognized illness. ;)

vaccines: pubs/vaccine timeline

sars nurses sue canadian govt - nursing for nurses

for not following infection control regs.

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Out of curiousity, what would your response be if it was in the handbook?

If it was written in the handbook as policy. Then it would be up to the person to decide if they want to work there or not. It's a violation plain and simple no one should be forced or given a choice either the shot or your job. Some people are laxed in their judgement and they think i really need this job and will do anything to keep it not realizing the price they may have to pay in the long run. I have to tell you this in the Military i didn't have a choice on what they put in my body. Now i have respiratory and immune problems and a few other things wrong and no one in the government wants to take the responsibility. And it was either i take the shots or a court marshal with a chance of a dis honorable discharge. So when i read things like this it get's me angry and with good cause. These are my thoughts use them as you wish

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If it was written in the handbook as policy. Then it would be up to the person to decide if they want to work there or not. It's a violation plain and simple no one should be forced or given a choice either the shot or your job. Some people are laxed in their judgement and they think i really need this job and will do anything to keep it not realizing the price they may have to pay in the long run. I have to tell you this in the Military i didn't have a choice on what they put in my body. Now i have respiratory and immune problems and a few other things wrong and no one in the government wants to take the responsibility. And it was either i take the shots or a court marshal with a chance of a dis honorable discharge. So when i read things like this it get's me angry and with good cause. These are my thoughts use them as you wish

Thanks for the response. I suppose where you and I differ is the fact that I believe the employer has the right to set requirements at any time, just as an employee is free to continue being employed or quit at any point. I don't see it as being forced, but rather a choice to be made.

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Specializes in Vents, Telemetry, Home Care, Home infusion.

From LiveStrong Foundation:

Top 10 Communicable Diseases

Mortality and morbidity statistics from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention provide information on the impact of various communicable diseases in the U.S. Case fatalities and hospitalization figures give an indication as to the severity of the illness and economic impact of the different diseases.

Topping the list as the only communicable disease in the top 10 list of all fatalities is the duo of influenza and pneumonia. Influenza virus--the flu--rages through the world in a seasonal blitz. In the U.S., it contributes to over 200,000 hospitalizations a year and about 36,000 deaths. The advent of the H1N1, or swine flu. has further deepened concerns over this disease this year. Usually riding on the back of the flu is bacterial pneumonia, mainly by the pneumococcus bacteria. Pneumococcal diseases account for more than 175,000 hospitalizations and 4,800 deaths.

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/33155-top-communicable-diseases/#ixzz1AV5QGAUN

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From LiveStrong Foundation:

Top 10 Communicable Diseases

Mortality and morbidity statistics from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention provide information on the impact of various communicable diseases in the U.S. Case fatalities and hospitalization figures give an indication as to the severity of the illness and economic impact of the different diseases.

Topping the list as the only communicable disease in the top 10 list of all fatalities is the duo of influenza and pneumonia. Influenza virus--the flu--rages through the world in a seasonal blitz. In the U.S., it contributes to over 200,000 hospitalizations a year and about 36,000 deaths. The advent of the H1N1, or swine flu. has further deepened concerns over this disease this year. Usually riding on the back of the flu is bacterial pneumonia, mainly by the pneumococcus bacteria. Pneumococcal diseases account for more than 175,000 hospitalizations and 4,800 death

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/33155-top-communicable-diseases/#ixzz1AV5QGAUN

No disrespect to you Ma'am i can see you can paste and copy and very good i may add. But can you tell me what you think in your own words about the topic at hand. Would you let your employer force you to get a flu shot? Or would you refuse and lose your job? I would love to hear what you have to say being a 30 yr nurse.

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You may feel it is specious. As someone who spent a great deal of time behind the Iron Curtain in Soviet controlled Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary and Germany, who has walked through the gas chambers at Dachau and Auschwitz, I guarantee you that it is never in the best interests of any group of individuals to willingly lay down their rights.

Hello, Godwin. We meet again.

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Specializes in Vents, Telemetry, Home Care, Home infusion.
No disrespect to you Ma'am i can see you can paste and copy and very good i may add. But can you tell me what you think in your own words about the topic at hand. Would you let your employer force you to get a flu shot? Or would you refuse and lose your job? I would love to hear what you have to say being a 30 yr nurse.

I get a flu shot every year to protect myself, my family, my staff and patients. My employer offers shot every October. Over 85% of my staff receive it; those who don't sign declaration form that we offered them said protection--and don't go near patients if sick.

Those with respiratory crude this year took sick time and stayed home after seeing how flu caused one RN to wind up on vent last year.

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Specializes in Pediatrics, Rural, L&D, Postpartum.
Hello, Godwin. We meet again.

I have no clue who Godwin is. My name is Elisabeth. I am married to my husband Steven, which if you went to my profile and the link to one of my Squidoo sites you would see that. I have seven children ranging in age from 18 years to 16 months. I have worked almost exclusively pediatric care in Arizona and now do rural health care in Idaho.

My mother is Polish and we spent a great deal of my childhood overseas visiting family in Poland and visiting neighboring areas. My mother loves to travel and I was blessed to be able to go with her.

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Specializes in Pediatrics, Rural, L&D, Postpartum.
Once again, you are using irrelevant appeals/ad hominems to propose why your opinion should be more valid than anothers. Enough with the logical fallacies in your position, please. A patient is not the same as an employee, that is a fact. In vaccinations for employment, no one is forcing anyone to do anything. Hell, in an employment at will state, as employer can fire you if it doesn't like the shoes you are wearing, if it wants to. The fact of the matter is they generally don't, as it would create a lot of work to keep a staff. However, if an employer feels strongly enought about something the can make it a requirement of continued employment.

Since you seem to be focusing on the issue of invasive procedures, let me pose a hypothetical, just to see where you come out on it. If an employer had no requirement for random drug/alcohol screening when you hired on with the company and 5 years down the road decided to implement random drug/alcohol screenings, would you then contend that all those people hired before the policy was put in place would never be subject to those screenings?

No, and apparently you can't see a difference between being forced to inject something IN to your body that may have adverse medical consequences that are unforeseen at the time of the injection and giving a urine sample. Giving a urine sample doesn't run the risk of a medical reaction that can be as severe, in some patients, as seizures, comas and death. Just because those risks are RARE does not meant that they do not exist.

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Specializes in Pediatrics, Rural, L&D, Postpartum.
Does your employer have the right to protect its patients? If there were another scientifically supported option and the employer insisted on the flu shot over that, I could support your argument and would heartily do so.

There IS another scientifically supported opinion. It is using the precautions we have in place already (whether you entered nursing at the time they were called standard or universal or whatever new term is next around the corner.)

Wash your hands before and after every single patient contact. Wear a mask if you have even the slightest of concerns that you might be able to pick up or spread a virus. Clean your stethoscope between uses and use dedicated, disposable supplies for patients with contagious diseases. Wear the nasty blue isolation gown every single time you set foot into an isolation room (how many of us have seen nurses who simply refuse to abide by those simple precautions unless they risk getting written up?)

You should be doing all of those things anyway. The fact of the matter is, the flu shot only covers about 3 strains of the flu. And it is the "best guess" as to those manufacturing the flu shot as to which strains are most likely to be needed at the time that the flu shot will be given... which is months after they begin production of the vaccine! There is no guarantee whatsoever that the flu shot any person receives will protect them from whatever strain of flu happens to actually be going around in their area.

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Specializes in Pediatrics, Rural, L&D, Postpartum.
Thanks for the response. I suppose where you and I differ is the fact that I believe the employer has the right to set requirements at any time, just as an employee is free to continue being employed or quit at any point. I don't see it as being forced, but rather a choice to be made.

CAN an employer choose to fire an employee for this? Sure, they can. Can an employee choose to sue that employer for that decision? Absolutely. Will the employee or employer prevail in court? That depends upon any number of factors.

There are certain black and white areas.... if you go for employment and during the hiring process you are informed that it is a policy of this institution to force mandatory vaccination upon their employees, you can choose not to work there, or you can choose to abide by it.

If you have a contract that states that you don't have to be forced to endure mandatory vaccination, then the employer cannot discharge you for that without facing repercussions.

I am trying to engage in a thought process more along the lines of that listed in the article.... no rule about mandatory vaccinations at the time of hiring. Being told that there were exemptions available for those who had either a medical or religious objection to the vaccination. Fulfilling the requirements for the exemption and then being told your religion isn't "good enough" to qualify for the exemption. (Who gets to decide what someone else's firmly held religious beliefs are?) Those are the facts that can be gleaned from the article.

Now, as to what can't be directly inferred... let's say that the employee has been there for a number of years and her clinical skills are at least adequate for the job. She has never abused the sick time policy. She follows the precautions the hospital has laid out to the letter. In other words, she is a responsible employee doing all she can to prevent the spread of disease and be a productive worker.

Although the medical community at large is loathe to admit it, there are legitimate questions as to both the safety and efficacy of the flu shot.

Should an employee who truly believes that it is not safe or that it falls outside of her religious beliefs to have this substance injected IN to her body.... this is not something that can be removed at a later time... once the vaccination has been administered, whatever consequences are to come will come... should that employee have to leave a job she otherwise loves and is GOOD at... costing the employer the considerable funds required to replace her... when there is strong evidence to support that her current actions are having the effect that this vaccination is supposed to produce... namely, a productive employee who does not spread disease?

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