Why so closed minded? WHY? - page 5

Worked with a male nurse the other night. This nurse is agency and has worked at our facility for some time. He always gives good pt care and is helpful to the aides and other nurses. As I took V.S.... Read More

  1. by   Dayray
    I hope that I didn't give the impression that I believe patients should be forced into having a male as their nurse. I have never had a request by a patient for a female nurse. If a patient ever requests a female nurse I will find them one.

    My post was aimed at Nurses not patients. Just like Mark, I have had nurses warn my patients that I was male. The only people who have ever criticized or questioned my choice to work in OB/GYN are other nurses. This is not even a patient issue it is a nursing issue.

    I have actually asked my patients at discharge what they thought of male OB nurses. All of them said that when they first saw me they thought I was a doctor. When I told them I was a nurse it surprised them but once they knew I was a nurse they assumed there were lots of male OB nurses and didn't give it much thought.

    When I said, "Excepting discrimination based on gender is not patient advocacy" I didn't mean that we should refuse to give patients a female nurse if they ask for one. Before I came to work in OB I had several patients refuse my care because I am Hispanic. I didn't say a word to them I traded with another nurse and went on with my day.

    I don't believe we should make patients keep a nurse they are uncomfortable with. I do however believe that refusing the care of a nurse because of race, religion or GENDER is wrong. Of course we should do our best to accommodate the patients request no matter what their reasons but accepting this as simple preference is wrong, it is discrimination.

    Not that long ago, women were not allowed to vote. They were not allowed to wear pants. They were not allowed to be alone with a male for any length of time. At one time it was legal for a man to beat his wife as long as it wasn't more then 3 times a week and it did not happen in a public place. These rules were accepted by society because of stereotypical beliefs about women. It was generally accepted that women were not very smart and that they were inferior to men. We all know these beliefs were wrong. But if you lived in that time you would have excepted these Ideas as fact because that would have been what your parents and everyone else taught you.

    The same is true today of the way we see men. We are thought that men are mainly motivated by sex. That men oppress or abuse women, that they are selfish. Men are not supposed to be caring they are supposed to be tough and strong. How many times have you heard "all men are pigs"?

    It's the same damn thing!

    These stereotypes are the reasons you feel more comfortable with a female nurse.

    Please do not mistake my passion for anger. I don't blame people for feeling the way they do. They can only believe what they have been taught.
    Last edit by Dayray on Jul 28, '02
  2. by   LasVegasRN
    Excellent post, DayRay.
  3. by   Dayray

    Thanks =)
  4. by   mark_LD_RN
    very thoughtful post ray.

    it is a shame this is even a topic, nurses can really surprise you, the manager of L&D i went to in southern california told me " no males will work here not now not ever!" what a shame, they lost out. I was flown to austin texas as a replacement assignment and they loved me, i still get calls wanting me back there, I wish all nurses would be more open minded and let males practice freely as they are. I have no problem with patients refuseing my care,but i have a real problem with nurses refusing to let me even have a chance to practice in my chosen area of practice. i knew from day one that this is where i belong.

    i also like to thank all the nurses out there who have been supportive of me and of the other male nurses out there. lets all work together and be professionals.
  5. by   mario_ragucci
    Wow Mark, that is so cool of you to say. this is really an interesting thread. You know, I have never told anyone this, but some patients I see still think I'm their doctor, I guess because I am a white male middle thirties. I have to bark right up front about being the nurses asst. , out of respect for them, and I am extremely careful to be super humble as a c n a. Personally, i think a majority of the wanna be doctors all walk around so stiff, and lots of them wear sissy shoes, man or woman. Hey - I don't walk stiff and I wear bright yellow Nike Roc-shox, cross trainers, and pts wanna believe I am their doctor.

    Man or woman, it is really in the eyes and in the touch, and the feeling you get when someone speaks to you and you experience their attention, and vice versa. (look into their eyes) I feel sorry for the folks who can't maintain understanding with a person.
  6. by   mattsmom81
    Originally posted by mark_LD_RN
    matts mom you are sadly mistaken! My patient love me and request me very few have any problem with it. It is mostly nurses that have the problem with it,Go figure that!

    Deb's response: Mark, most professionals will consider their patients' comfort first, in my experienced. Now maybe you work with a few nurses who don't agree with males in LD. But you can't generalize like this and be logical.

    Mark writes: Youe also mistaken about males prefering males to cath them and prep them, most have no preference i for one don't.

    Again, Mark, I have been a nurse for 25 years and I cannot be 'mistaken' about my experiences over the years. It's not 'law', just my experience talking. So please don't tell me I'm 'mistaken".

    Mark writes: This is not a control issue at all! you are free to choose, i could care less who you choose i only get annoyed at female nurse that want to discriminate against males passed on gender and misinformed sterotyping.

    Mark, I will be free to make comfort choices and so will my patients. This is not about you or how great a nurse you think you are. Period. A male patient who asks for a male to cath him, or a female asking for a female to do her peri care is not acting out of discrimination, just their comfort levels, and as a caring nurse I can understand that. Get a grip, please. One nurse who asks her female patients if they prefer a woman does not make all of us discriminators.

    Mark writes:

    matts mom you need to wake up, and realize not ever one shares your view and you should not be so controlling and try to force your views on others!
    Hmm. Well, Mark, I'm offering my OPINION (as you did) but I am not trying to control or force my views. We are all free to agree or disagree with one anothers posts, after all. I feel you have your priorities a bit skewed, Mark, but I don't think you want to hear that.

    I'm a bit dissapointed in some of the responses on this thread... I hope we all examine our motives, our insecurities and narcicism.

    After 25 years as a bedside nurse, I know what my motives are and they are patient focused....I don't go to work with a political agenda, insecurities, or a need to 'show those discriminating patients/nurses' a few things, nor be everybody's 'favorite nurse'. Just a thought, and totally my opinion...(not forcing, you understand)...

    G'Day all. :roll
  7. by   Dayray

    I am sure you have forgotten more then I currently know about nursing 25 years is a long time. Unfortunately you have lost the ability to admit when you are wrong or to see the forest for the trees. One or the other, either you totally miss the point of this discussion or refuse to admit when you are wrong.

    The reason mark mentions that his patient's love him is not to brag about how good a nurse he is (although I'm sure he is a great nurse) he writes about this to show that his sex is not an issue with patients but only with nurses like you.

    He isn't generalizing or saying all nurses persecute male nurses he was talking about specific incidents and I think really talking about you and your attitude.

    I have never seen a post from mark that would suggest he would put his own agenda before that of the patients. He has always stated that he wouldn't be offended if a patient preferred a female and that he wouldn't give them a hard time about it. he also says this has never happened to him.

    Perhaps male patients have asked that you bring in a male to perform certain procedures for them. Although I have never encountered this I'm sure some patients would ask for a same sex nurse. My best guess as to why this seems to happen to you so often is that they are looking for an excuse to get away from you (you don't seem like a very happy person).
    Last edit by Dayray on Jul 30, '02
  8. by   alwaysthere
    Ok people this is getting a bit to personal. WE are not here to tear down one another. We take enough abuse at work and we do not need to use our words and intellects to fight amongst one another! Keep it cool ppl

    Mattsmom while I do not agree with your veiws altogether I do agree that the patient comes first even if their predjudice is wrong they still come first. As i mentioned in the first post ...do to staffing he was not able to switch assigments but the three of us did come up with a compromise.

    As for me when i am a pt. I dont care what race sex religion or creed the person who is caring for me belongs to. Only that they are Professionals.
  9. by   mark_LD_RN
    matts mom i stand by my last post, it is you who is controlling and very angry sounding. I alaways put my patients first, i never once said other wise . i have no agenda except to provide the best care possible to my patients. you are more than welcome to your opinion, but you should stop projecting it on others, you are attempting to speak for all patients not just for yourself. I am sure if you were a manager of an ob unit you would be one to stand in my way due to your opinion. that does not seem to be inthe patients best interest to me. i have patients that prefer me over females often your prejudgement and closed mindedness actually would hurt them and limit the care they recieve. so you claiming to be a patient advocate is not totally true! I never force a patient to let me be there nurse if they request another nurse i wish them well tell them good luck and move on. I am not here to change the world but just to do what i love and that is care for my patients. i will state again that i never ever had a problem with a female patient rejecting my care. i do not go to work to make people love me or to think i am the best. I want to be the best nurse ever (male or female) and i work hard to be that. but in no way am i bragging as you seem to think, i am just pointing out how much my patients like me. So you see your statment that males prefer males and females prefer females is mistaken! it my be you personal preference but not every ones and you have no right to speak for ever one. you should learn to aviod absolutes like always,never, and always, there is exceptions to ever rule.

    you are not attempting to just offer your opinion but suggest that all patients think like you and that is incorcet. i suggest you go back and read your posts and see. also go back and read any of my posts on this topic and point out where i said i would make a patient have me as their nurse or that i am better than females. i have no agenda just in your eyes you are implying that i have one.

    i still think you need to wake up and open your eyes, to the facts, your opinion in not shared by all, if you wer e my patient i would gladly let you chose another nurse

    and another thing i am not insecure if i was i would not be able to do what i do, i definitely do not suffer from narcicism. you may have been a nurse for 25 yrs, thinks have changed and it is time to accet it or move on. you are welcome to your opinion but not welcome to force your views on others, or to discriminate against others for any reason.

    It is wrong for a nurse or hospital to hold one back due to discrimination, it should not be encouraged at all. I am sure you do not know the feeling of discrimination, if you did maybe you would be more symapathetic, but i doubt it i am sure you will remain closed minded to the end.
  10. by   mattsmom81
    Are you for real Mark LD RN? Just wondering..... what do the rest of the LD RN's around here think???

    I wonder now if the nurses who warn their female patients you are coming might be on the right track, based on what I READ here..

    Now...granted it's hard to 'see' people on these boards, and understand what they are really trying to convey, so I wil try to give you the benefit of the doubt.

    Mark, if you are really a nurse, I hope you DO consider your patient's comfort level in your care of patients, as you say you do...or you may be in for a world of hurt with accusations down the road. Just a friendly piece of advice from someone who IS a nurse, and has close friends and coworkers (Male and female) who are nurses.

    Your feeling of 'discrimination' against you in LD are also of concern....maybe you should see someone about that.

    Now...if my opinions (which were in response to what YOU wrote) bug you, just ignore me. I just love that ignore feature.....
  11. by   mark_LD_RN
    well mattsmom it is not your opinion that bothers me just nurses like you with closed minds!

    i would love to know what you read here that makes you think the nurses are right to warn patients of my coming. no one has a right to do that.

    you know as well as i do that discrimination is hard to fight especially when you are out numbered.

    and i am a nurses and have many friends who are nurses also

    YOU can go back and read this thread and others along this topic and see what most L&D nurses think about me and males in general.

    I have no real concern for your close minded opinion. let me REPEAT what i said: I do not like nurses to disriminate against others for gender or any other reason. and do not think males should be treated any differently or prevented from practicing in any area of their chossing. I see you have REAL problem admitting when YOU are wrong!

    as far as ignoring you i rather enjoy seeing your close minded views spread around here. it just proves what i have been saying all along.

    i will promise you i am not in for a world of hurt down the road from accusations. I do not live in fear of that at all. my patients appreciate me and that is all that matters, people like you will never prevent me from doing what i want, if you are a nurse you will fall by the way side as will other nurses that are as closed minded and hateful as you are.

    you started the ugly attitude and accusations. and the projection of your opinion as the opinion of all females. You need a little more education to realize you are not the appointted spokes person for ALL women as you think you are.

    as far as the discrimination thing just imagine how you would feel if some one told you you could only care for female patients or only work in a particular area because you are female or for any other reason. can you view things from another persons perspective? or would you even care?

    Hope this makes you think, but then again it really does not matter. since you are of the minority here. Thank god most nurses are not like you and are willing to be open minded and at least let a fellow coworker have a chance to pursue the career of their choice.
  12. by   caroladybelle
    I do not have a preference of gender in regards to my nurses, but I do have a preference of females as far as the MDs/NPs that provide care for me. While I currently have a male Internist, he has done a great deal to earn my trust.

    I was a virgin (and not merely technically) until I was 25. I never had a male MD that didn't express surprise (Are you sure you know what sex is?), condescention (You are too pretty for that.), or make rude comments in regards to this. They were also rather rude and less than gentle w/pap smears (It doesn't hurt that much). Female health care providers have always!!!! been kinder.
  13. by   Dayray
    Ack im sorry that happend to you =( that was just plain bad taste on the part of those doctors.