NP Programs w/o (or with less) Fluff/Theory?

matthdrn · Aug 13, 2016

That "fluff" you better invest some time into because the ANCC enjoyed testing it, I would say at least 40% of the certification exam consisted of leadership, research, public health, and even questions on navigating policy change in the community and at the national level.

SopranoKris, MSN, RN, NP · Aug 14, 2016

UAB & University of South Alabama both have Acute Care NP programs with little "fluff". USA's BSN-to-DNP has the least fluff and awards you both the MSN & DNP (you do residency clinical hours, so you get a LOT of clinicals).

alyson0408 · Aug 14, 2016

I understand where you are coming from with PA vs NP and the type of coursework/clinicals provided in each program. I recommend NP because if you are a PA, you will have to retest every 6 years. NPs only have to keep up with continuing education. Who wants to retest every 6 years?

db2xs · Aug 15, 2016

It looks like what you've posted is the DNP curriculum, which is filled with fluff, and which is why I withdrew from the DNP program and am just going to finish up the MSN NP program. I did a discipline-by-discipline comparison of doctoral programs (not PhDs), e.g., DPT, PharmD, MD, etc., and the DNP is the only one that has zero clinical courses. Even a DMA (Doctor of Music Arts) has performance classes to improve their performance skills. The Capstone is not clinical--it is just using the brain to think up of something to do someday in the future. None of the NPs with DNPs I've talked to have said that the DNP improved their clinical skills. It just earned them greater respect from everyone and more confidence. I personally don't want or need to pay thousands of dollars to gain respect and more confidence.

Follow your heart!

cocoa_puff · Aug 15, 2016

I understand where you are coming from with PA vs NP and the type of coursework/clinicals provided in each program. I recommend NP because if you are a PA, you will have to retest every 6 years. NPs only have to keep up with continuing education. Who wants to retest every 6 years?

PAs have to retest every 10 years and complete 100 CME credits during that time. Personally I don't see that as a negative thing.

gelli.25 · Aug 16, 2016

PAs have to retest every 10 years and complete 100 CME credits during that time. Personally I don't see that as a negative thing.

It isn't entirely a negative, but honestly, who wants to test for re-certification every 10 years? Plus, most PAs are in specialties - but their recert. test covers every single thing from peds to urology to psych. A couple of PAs that I work with were just mentioning this. No, thank you.

alyson0408 · Aug 16, 2016

I didn't realize that had changed it from every 6 years to every 10 years. I've worked with several PA's in specialties and they commented on how hard it was to retest and have to relearn everything outside of their specialty. If it's not a big deal for you then that's a plus!

Malenurse1235954 · Aug 16, 2016

You are not alone in wanting more rigerous course work. I can not express how disapointed I am that the previous generation of nurse leaders didnt add more classes as you described when they pushed for the jump from MSN to DNP. I think it was a political agenda and the knowledge they added could easily been covered in a few weekend workshops.

Its like they sat down and said whats the easiest way we could add enough credits to call these programs doctorate, rather than addressing the perceived or real educational disparities between our physician counterparts.

I think this was a missed opportunity to push for more independent practice in states that do not allow this yet. We could of had a two tier provider level like the medical model's PA and MD/DO with MSN and DNP.

cocoa_puff · Aug 16, 2016

I didn't realize that had changed it from every 6 years to every 10 years. I've worked with several PA's in specialties and they commented on how hard it was to retest and have to relearn everything outside of their specialty. If it's not a big deal for you then that's a plus!

I think it only recently changed from 6 years to 10 years in 2014. I wonder if PA's are required to retest because they can change specialties without having to go back to school, compared to NP's who specialize in either acute care, psych, peds, family practice, or women's health, and then have to be certified to work in another specialty. Maybe PA's have to show that they've maintained that knowledge so they can move on to another specialty if they want.

I imagine it would be hard to relearn everything, but I'm a good test taker so it wouldn't be a big deal for me :bookworm:

Ddestiny, BSN, RN · Jun 22, 2018

Old thread, but I'm very interested in this topic as well and thought I'd revive this post to elicit any further suggestions for programs to investigate. Any good or bad experiences to add?

Dodongo, APRN, NP · Jun 22, 2018

Drexel University and the University of Pittsburgh in Pennsylvania are pretty good as well. There is essentially no "nursing theory" in either of those programs - just a handful of classes on the business and politics of healthcare - but, honestly, that's not a bad thing. Physicians are beginning to add this to medical school curriculum as well:

New approach equips med school grads for tomorrow’s health system | AMA Wire

And as for PAs, their recertification test is now transitioning to multiple, shorter, online/open book tests from the convenience of their own homes. So that's not quite a hurdle anymore in my opinion.

jimmie83 · Aug 25, 2018

Cocoa. Hi, great post. Please let me know if you find anymore schools. I am from GA, so I would prefer to study on the SE coast or west coast. I would prefer to go to an on-campus program, so I can be challenged more.

I am finishing up my BSN right now (December, 2018), but always wanted to be a PA, since it was taught by physicians and since it followed the medical model. I also finished my BS in pschology and masters in hospital administration.

I am also really disappointed with our NP education. All these theory classes (research, policy, leadership) are a joke, and do not help us with diagnosing and clinical judgement. And we wonder why a lot of doctors do not value our opinions; this is due to the low quality of "nursing" education. Even though PA's do not usually have any background/experience before graduating, they are in some ways, perceived as smarter than than their counterpart NP's.

Furthermore, A doctorate in nursing is useless unless it has more patho physiology, pharmacology, cardio, GI, endocrine, neuro, etc. and diagnostic components to them. I know of PT programs that require 3 patho-physiology classes, while NP's only require one. Lets all fix this issue, and not accept the status quo of incompetence. We need to stop being "lazy" and require more from our schools. Especially if we want more states to give us autonomy.