Nonclinical Supervisors - vent

[Kelly_the_Great]

Hello,

Just wanted to ask if any of you have supervisors who are nonclinical? By that I mean they might have degrees in marketing, administration or maybe even political science but not nursing or anywhere close to it.

Do you find it frustrating?

I have a direct supervisor who, although very congenial and extremely intelligent, I don't think has a degree in anything at all, the next in line has a degree in marketing, then finally I have one who is a nurse and is the VP of the company. We've only talked on maybe 2 different occasions and one of those was when I was ordering cookie dough from her for her son's school project. So you see she's not greatly involved in my day to day functions as a nurse, right?

Had a little situation where a pt. complained that he called the agency and was "brushed off" by being told to go to the ER by one of the nurses (couldn't remember who or exactly when). I work phone triage for a HH agency. Find record where I had indeed, over 2 months ago, talked to this pt. who was c/o sx. of hypokalemia, just gotten out of hosp. 5 days prior and had hx. of cardiac complications. So, what did I do? I stressed the potential danger of his sx. along w/ his dx. and the need to proceed w/ caution and recommended the need for ER visit (this all occurred after hours - so MD office closed), notified the nurse on-call in his geographical area - and she agreed. I mean, I thought this was the prudent thing to do and had an RN concur. Anyways, b/c I admit to talking with this pt. and admit to advising ER visit (BTW I've never sent one that didn't subsequently get admitted to the hosp.), now I have to justify the advice b/c of "customer service" complaint. :uhoh21:

What do ya'll think?

Also, anyone else have similiar experiences?

[Kelly_the_Great]

I am a supervisor and I have a degree in political science.

Of course, I've also been an RN for 20 years. :)

As a supervisor, no matter what my background, I'd be looking to see that you followed your agency's policy and that you documented your interventions thoroughly. If you'd done both of those, and if there were no history of complaints regarding your telephone skills, I'd be inclined not to make a big deal about it. While "customer service" is indeed important, it's also important to support your staff when they're doing a good job.

Hi catlady,

Yes, thankfully I documented everything and I also have backup from the field nurse. This is the 1st complaint process I've ever been involved in since I've been there 1.5 years, so I guess I'm just, I mean they're just "investigating" the incident I wasn't even named in it. I just, b/c I always try to tx. ppl w/ respect & b/c I take pride in the work I do, I feel disappointed.

[Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN]

I think someone with a nursing background can better understand where a nurse is coming from.

[Kelly_the_Great]

You didn't mention if your job recorded it's calls. When I worked as a telephonic nurse, every single phone call was recorded and all the infomation we put into the computer was recorded along with it so any call could be played back at any time and be heard verbatim as well an observe the computer screen and what we had typed onto it. The same could be done when we made outgoing calls as well.

No, they don't have that capability. But that sure would be wonderful! Sometimes, you can't capture the atmosphere of the conversation (receptive, resistant, sarcastic, congenial) with written words, you know?

Edited to add: It would have captured the amicability of the exchange.

For instance, with this particular situation, I remember stressing my concern to the patient, their verbalizing understanding (not agreement) and the overall interaction being one of an amicable nature. Having it recorded would have revealed that.

[Kelly_the_Great]

I think someone with a nursing background can better understand where a nurse is coming from.

Thanks Marie,

Most of the time, it's no big deal. However, at times, it can be very frustrating. Having to do double education (etiology, intervention, rationale standard, etc.) for the patient and your boss.

[Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN]

I agfree. It's almost like you overtalk yourself.

[sunny78]

i have a supervisor which is non clinical also,and it bugs me because she is forever in the way,and she does not have a clue what is going on half the time,she butts in where she is not needed,and makes desicions,that are not her place to do,and tries to do my job,after talking with her about this,things were okay for about a week then she was back to the same thing again,! not only does she do this to me,she also tries to do everybody elses job as well,i dont understand how people are basically hired off the street,to do jobs most people have spent yrs in college for and to make it worse they make alot more money than you do!!! what is the point of college you know? if you can just walk in anywhere now days,and land a killer job,and have little to no experience?:uhoh21:

[Daytonite, BSN, RN]

Sometimes, you can't capture the atmosphere of the conversation (receptive, resistant, sarcastic, congenial) with written words, you know? . .For instance, with this particular situation, I remember stressing my concern to the patient, their verbalizing understanding (not agreement) and the overall interaction being one of an amicable nature. Having it recorded would have revealed that.

There have been a handful of times over my career where patients made complaints about something I said or did to them that just didn't jibe with what I remember of the same situation. I've come to believe that I just have to chalk some people's behavior up as just being odd and bizarre. Guess that's just one of the pitfalls of dealing with people. No two people are always going to have the same perception.

A patient lying in ICU after his surgery kept insisting that when I had started his IV that morning before surgery, I had pulled his pants down roughly for no reason at all. And he named me. I only saw him for 5 minutes to put his IV in and he remembered my name very clearly! This was written up by a newly appointed nursing supervisor and so my manager had to call me in to follow up on the write-up. My manager couldn't believe it and I laughed about it because there were two other nurses in the room with me when I was starting his IV that morning. In fact, his room was busy with groups of people in and out of it since he was getting prepped and ready for big-time thoracic surgery. The man wouldn't let me near him during the rest of his hospitalization. It was very weird, but he just wasn't able to lose the idea that I had pulled his pants down. I wonder if it really happened, and if it did, who did do it.

[BamaBound2bRN]

I apologize if this is a little off subject. Several years ago, about 1986, I was a med tech in the Air Force. We had a patient, a Tech Sargeant who had been in the Air Force for about 15 years, who kept coming into sick call complaining of head-aches. Over a couple of years he was evaluated by several Neurologists, Internists, Psychiatrists, etc. but they never found anything wrong. Finally his C.O. had had enough and wanted him discharged for derelection (sp?) of duty. So, he was admitted to my unit for a final physical before being sent up on charges. A young med student was assigned to do his H/P and review his charts, when she noticed he had never had a C-Spine X-Ray.............which she performed and found he had a birth defect of a gap between his C1 and C2 which exposed his cord- immagine his surprise and that of his C.O. This just taught me that no matter what the degree of education or how many MD's or Nurses look at a situation, sometimes what a pt. is telling us IS the truth. Just food for thought.

[Kelly_the_Great]

Well, Bama, I did believe him.

That's why I thought he needed to be eval. in ER where they could do an EKG and stat K+ level, you know?

I hear where your comin' from though (I think), meaning you shouldn't dismiss c/o as just that - complaints, right?

Also, here's a med student catching this after bein' seen by all the others. It's not always all in the education. I agree, Marie_LPN has a saying that goes something like (I'm not looking directly @ it so I might misquote it), "A degree is not necessarily an education."

Still, for me - at times, it's frustrating dealing with a superior - someone directly over you and your not speaking the same language, you know?

[HappyNurse2005, RN]

Dummy question-I see you're a LVN. I thought LVN's couldn't do triage b/c it was considered assessing? Or is this a state to state thing? Maybe its just this state, but I;ve always been told that only RN's can do telephone triage.

Not meaning any disrespect here, i'm just curious. I don't want to have any misconceptions, you know?

[HappyNurse2005, RN]

But, on the topic-No, I couldn't imagine having a non nurse supervisor.

[HappyNurse2005, RN]

arrrgh, I didnt mean to post that yet. HOw can someone who is not a nurse really know if their employees(the nurses) are performing properly if they don't know what it is they are doing? how can they adequately handle a complaint about a nurse, if htey dont knwo what proper nursing practice is?

I;ve known of managers to have a BSN then an MBA, but thats different. -THey are a nurse, too