NON-Nurses Giving Shots in MD Offices

caliotter3 · Oct 5, 2009

I recently had a vaccination given by a medical assistant who also drew blood. She did a tremendous job and I complimented her on her technique. But I also agree with you.

catlynLPN · Oct 5, 2009

Well, I'm not in NYC, but in my state if they're working under the supervision of the doctor he can train them to do whatever he wants them to do.

As long as it's in his office under his supervision, is what I've been told.

I don't like it either, but they do it here.

There's even a drugstore in my little town that is giving out flu shots right now.

I won't be getting mine there.

I'll get mine at work and it will be given by one of my co-worker/LPNs.

My state has recently started allowing med techs to give medications in nursing homes and I think they were already doing it like in assisted care places.

The RN director of the state board of nursing in MY state said, and I quote, "It doesn't take a rocket scientist to pour pills out of a bottle and give them to a patient". That comment makes me feel really good, NOT.

Something else I saw, once when I'd went in to get some lab work in my doctor's office.

I saw a lab tech there trying to draw blood on this lady. She obviously wasn't getting any blood and she dug that needle way down in her arm.

That little lady was complaining it was hurting but she just kept digging. I've never seen anyone dig like that before to draw blood. Another tech took over and got it immediately.

Lovely_RN, MSN · Oct 5, 2009

This is what NYSNA has to say about the MA scope of practice.

http://www.nysna.org/practice/scope/med_assists.htm

MAs can perform phlebotomy and there is nothing that specifically states that they cannot give injections. It also states that the physician can authorize the MA to do certain tasks if the physician feels that the MA has the training and education to complete that task. So it's really the docs call because MAs are UAP and the doc is responsible for the supervision of the MA.

A physician may decide to permit a medical assistant to perform certain tasks, knowing they have had the education and training, with the physician supervising the performance. Permitted are: collection of vital signs, phlebotomy, EKGs, and waive testing, to name just a few. It is recommended that the supervising physician indicate in writing which duties the medical assistant can perform. It is also advisable for physicians to consult their malpractice carrier before establishing the list of approved duties.

ONCRN84 · Oct 5, 2009

Depends on your state. If it's illegal in your state, bring it to someone's attention.

In my state, MAs are licensed, go through training, and can give vaccines/draw blood/etc.

HeartsOpenWide, RN · Oct 5, 2009

It is not illegal for medical assistants to give injections or draw blood if they are certified medical assistants or certified in injections and veinpuncture. If your doctors medical assistant was giving the injection incorrectly then you should say something to him/her. I am an RN-BSN past CMA and I am so tired of nurses getting all territorial over TRAINED medical assistants giving injections...its IM's,Sub-Q, and epi-dermal injections...vaccinations, ANXs, depo-shots,allergy injections, some narcotics; they are limited to what they can inject (no analgesics) Check to make sure your doctor's assistants are certified if you have a problem with it; but in most states it is not illegal, and injections are not reserved for nurses.

LRyder · Oct 5, 2009

Surprising. But if she's certified in phlebotomy, wouldn't it be legal? I thought nurses and "technicians" per se, could draw blood if trained and certified/licensed. Either way, if she was using improper needles and whatnot, it definitely needs to be looked into! I wonder how many other cities are hiring underqualified employees. :nono:

nyforlove · Oct 5, 2009

Surprising. But if she's certified in phlebotomy, wouldn't it be legal? I thought nurses and "technicians" per se, could draw blood if trained and certified/licensed. Either way, if she was using improper needles and whatnot, it definitely needs to be looked into! I wonder how many other cities are hiring underqualified employees.

My understanding re: phlebotomy (i.e., drawing blood) is that some states require licensing and others, like NY, do not; however, injection of medicine into someone is a WHOLE DIFFERENT BALL GAME with its attendant risks, allergies, reactions, etc. NYState NURSE PRACTICE ACT prevents MDs from "training" "unlicensed assistive personnel" from doing this--in the same way that an MD can't "train" his/her UAP to make incisions during surgery.

nyforlove · Oct 5, 2009

This is what NYSNA has to say about the MA scope of practice.
http://www.nysna.org/practice/scope/med_assists.htm
MAs can perform phlebotomy and there is nothing that specifically states that they cannot give injections. It also states that the physician can authorize the MA to do certain tasks if the physician feels that the MA has the training and education to complete that task. So it's really the docs call because MAs are UAP and the doc is responsible for the supervision of the MA.

Thanks for the reference, but you didn't make it to the second paragraph, to wit:

"As unlicensed personnel in New York State, they cannot perform such tasks as preparing or administering medications or immunizations...."

THE NY NURSE PRACTICE ACT RESTRICTS ADMINISTRATION OF MEDS TO RNs/LPNs, etc. A UAP cannot be "trained" on the job to, e.g., give shots, administer meds to wounds, etc...

LaneRN · Oct 5, 2009

I am an LPN, before graduating nursing school, I received my AAS. in Medical assistants, We were trained to give injections, draw blood and perform other lab test, but in my training as an LPN we were not taught to draw blood, but were taught to do injections, as a CMA We did have pharmacology and knew the correct needle sizes and proper procedure for all injections, so depending on your state a medical assistant can do these things and as someone else stated they do not work under a nurses licenses as a CNA does but under a doctors, that is why most are hired in doctors offices but anyone can be trained to give injections and draw blood we had a couple of radiologist techs in our office, which was an urgent care center that drew blood, gave injections, and performed other lab test such as UA, strep test and drug screens, so it all depends on the state you are in as I stated before, but local drug stores are using pharmacists to give their injections, so as long as they are trained then it is perfectly legal in most states but not all. but if she was doing it incorrectly with the wrong needles, I hope that you informed the doctor, because he may not have been aware.

HeartsOpenWide, RN · Oct 5, 2009

Thanks for the reference, but you didn't make it to the second paragraph, to wit:
"As unlicensed personnel in New York State, they cannot perform such tasks as preparing or administering medications or immunizations...."
THE NY NURSE PRACTICE ACT RESTRICTS ADMINISTRATION OF MEDS TO RNs/LPNs, etc. A UAP cannot be "trained" on the job to, e.g., give shots, administer meds to wounds, etc...

Are you sure this is for all areas? When the OB office that has OBs/Midwives that practice in our hospital, was privately owned the Medical Assistants could give shots...then the hospital bought the office and the office had to hire a nurse to give the shots...now that they OBs bought the practice back the Medical Assistants can give shots again.

nyforlove · Oct 5, 2009

Are you sure this is for all areas? When the OB office that has OBs/Midwives that practice in our hospital, was privately owned the Medical Assistants could give shots...then the hospital bought the office and the office had to hire a nurse to give the shots...now that they OBs bought the practice back the Medical Assistants can give shots again.

CAN they LEGALLY---or, is the small practice willing to risk the punishment that the hospital can't afford to risk with multi-million dollar Liability Insurance policies? Is the practice you refer to in NYState?