No RN experence NP "non-nurse"

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So the other day I came across an article explaining a term non-nurse nurse practitioner. This refers to nurse practitioners that didnt stop to be RNs before going to NP school. As an aspiring "non-nurse" nurse practitioner, I found this humorous and comforting. Humerous because I could argure for and against. Comforting because there are enough of us for someone to assign us a nickname.

Are there any other non-nurse nurse practitioners out there? How did you do in school and transitioning to practice? How many clinical hours did you get in school? What do you think of NP residencies/fellowships?

Specializes in Leadership, Psych, HomeCare, Amb. Care.
I admit I have no experrnce with diploma/hospital trained RNs. I base this solely on info recieved from my BSN classes that said diploma nurses were regularly pulled from instruction to meet hospital shortages. I suppose a BSN class teaching BSN trained RNs are better than diploma trained RNs has a high possibility for bias.

Sounds like an urban myth. I was never once pulled from class, nor were any of my classmates.

Also, I hope you realize that in Florence's day, there were no BSN programs at all.

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I did several searches using different arrangements of key words to get data that correlates RN experience to NP skills and can't find anything supporting it one way or the other. Certainly nothing within the last 10 years. Of course, I only spent a bit of time on it. I'm sure I could take 2 weeks and do some digging, but I have homework to do :p

Here is one looking just from an academic perspective.

Does Prior RN Clinical Experience Predict Academic Success in Graduate Nurse Practitioner Programs? - PubMed - NCBI

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Wait a second! This study only looks at academic success. Nursing experience has nothing to do with academic potential. That's all on the student. I'm pretty sure my 30 years of assessing patients in an advanced role (although not an NP/CNS) would completely blow the direct entry student's assessment skills out of the water, at least out of the gate. If they don't then I should just hang up my cap and be done with it. That's the advantage I think most people are talking about.

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Wait a second! This study only looks at academic success. Nursing experience has nothing to do with academic potential. That's all on the student. I'm pretty sure my 30 years of assessing patients in an advanced role (although not an NP/CNS) would completely blow the direct entry student's assessment skills out of the water, at least out of the gate. If they don't then I should just hang up my cap and be done with it. That's the advantage I think most people are talking about.

Yes, I know this study is on academic performance. I actually pointed that out. Do you have anything but an opinion to add to the discussion? I am still waiting for some sort of evidence that the quantity of RN experence has some effect on ones career as a NP. As it stands the two studies I linked suggests "non-nurses" do as good or better than.

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Exploring the Factors that Influence Nurse Practitioner Role Transition. - PubMed - NCBI

A positive correlation exists between a formal orientation and NP role transition. In contrast, prior RN experience was neither a promoter nor inhibitor of NP role transition.

I like this study because it supports having "formal orientation" which I personally believe should in the form of APRN residencies.

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Yes, I know this study is on academic performance. I actually pointed that out. Do you have anything but an opinion to add to the discussion? I am still waiting for some sort of evidence that the quantity of RN experence has some effect on ones career as a NP. As it stands the two studies I linked suggests "non-nurses" do as good or better than.

Well that was nice. You post a study that has nothing to do with clinical performance (which was your original premise) as a means of supporting your position and when it's pointed out you get snotty. Here's the thing, outside of measuring outcomes there isn't really any definitive tool to scientifically rate someone's clinical prowess so finding studies that do so will be difficult. There are too many variables. As for your little verbal barb, having been in this business for three decades it is all about opinion and I'm certainly entitled to mine and free to post it as well.

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Sudies just dont support that RN experence makes a better NP, despite what is considered "common knowledge." It has nothing to do with my opinion or lack of RN experence.

The studies don't support OR discount it as they very clearly stated. You forgot that part I guess. All of them note that variables in quality of experience is also a determining factor but they didn't measure for that. Look, nobody disagrees that a better teaching model is needed. I would love for even ASN/BSN education to be more rigorous. If every NP program had an intensive residency nobody would be arguing with you. Sadly, that is not the case.

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I really wished you'd stop waving the word "studies" around like that's going to sway what I've experienced. What are these studies anyway? Qualitative, quantitative? What is the level of evidence? I'm not saying that you HAVE to have RN experience to be a good NP. But I do believe that it 100% gives you an advantage in an NP program over someone who has no experience, in terms of preparation and confidence, etc. Most of my classmates have experience, and we all agree we are better off for it, for our own personal reasons, whatever they may be. I honestly don't see the point in even going to nursing school if you don't plan to practice as one. To go straight from an RN to NP just seems like a way to "get to the top" the quickest way possible.

In all of the studies they used a freaking Likert Scale!!! They had NPs rate themselves and their collaborating physicians rated them as well. This isn't science. This is opinion. Sure you can extrapolate data from the results but the data itself is suspect because it is entirely subjective. So basically we have studies based on opinions and the OP gets snarky with me about having one of my own.:cautious:

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The strength of the studies is surely up for debate and I would ask anyone reading this post to evaluate the 3 or 4 articles I have linked throughout this post. If The OP was an argument for or against RN experence it would be easier to find these links. Rather than pointing out there are enought no experence RNs going to NP school to be assigned a nickname "non-nurse." However, my point is there is no evidence that any amount of RN experence helps one become a NP. There is evidence that non nurses do at least as good if not slightly better academically and in practice (as judges by their peers). In time, I am sure we will see more research on this topic as non-nurses continue to go to NP school. As for now, I suppose it is your opinion (however biased it must be from 30 years experence) vs the published studies.

If I were a "non-nurse" reading this post wondering if I should or should not try to better myself through MP school, I would look at what is published on the subject vs naysayers.

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A convenience sample from 11 years ago from 3 schools all in one geographic area with response rate of 21% (one was 11%!) is not a rigorous study. There are too many limitations. There is no blinding and the methods section is a bit vague. The null hypothesis itself brings to mind both research and confirmation bias may play a significant role in the study outcomes. The study merely suggests more research is needed.

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If The OP was an argument for or against RN experence it would be easier to find these links. However, my point is there is no evidence that any amount of RN experence helps one become a NP. There is evidence that non nurses do at least as good if not slightly better academically and in practice (as judges by their peers). As for now, I suppose it is your opinion (however biased it must be from 30 years experence) vs the published studies.

Not one of these studies provided any measurable data that proves the part I bolded yet you keep insisting that it does. Furthermore, you keep bashing me for having an opinion yet all of the studies you have posted are entirely based on opinions! This is NOT scientific evidence. It's. Just. Not! Thirty years of experience does not automatically equal bias because in addition to experience I also have thirty years of actual evidence-based practice and continuing education (at an advanced level). You have zero. All you have to fall back on is a bunch of non-scientific studies that prove nothing except that some "non-nurse" graduate students do better in school and that you don't recognize a flawed study. Look, we all realize that some 'non-nurse" NPs will do well out of the gate while some experienced nurses won't. And the reverse is true. It all depends on the individual and their willingness to up their game.

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Specializes in Hospitalist Medicine.
Not one of these studies provided any measurable data that proves the part I bolded yet you keep insisting that it does. Furthermore, you keep bashing me for having an opinion yet all of the studies you have posted are entirely based on opinions! This is NOT scientific evidence. It's. Just. Not! Thirty years of experience does not automatically equal bias because in addition to experience I also have thirty years of actual evidence-based practice and continuing education (at an advanced level). You have zero. All you have to fall back on is a bunch of non-scientific studies that prove nothing except that some "non-nurse" graduate students do better in school and that you don't recognize a flawed study. Look, we all realize that some 'non-nurse" NPs will do well out of the gate while some experienced nurses won't. And the reverse is true. It all depends on the individual and their willingness to up their game.

And considering the OP is a non-nurse trying to go to NP school, I think s/he might be trying to justify their own position.

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